H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

tphuang

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If the H-20 is now a supersonic bomber that means the entire development pipeline got overhauled.
That would explain the longer timeline.

it is possible they never were going for subsonic option and those were proposals they got and eventually decided the additional supersonic performance was worth the longer dev time and other possible hits (like range? Or stealth?)
 

latenlazy

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That would explain the longer timeline.

it is possible they never were going for subsonic option and those were proposals they got and eventually decided the additional supersonic performance was worth the longer dev time and other possible hits (like range? Or stealth?)
It seems there was a lot of momentum going the subsonic wing direction until recently. Maybe both doctrine development and the engines situation changing also changed the thinking about future needs.
 

tphuang

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It seems there was a lot of momentum going the subsonic wing direction until recently. Maybe both doctrine development and the engines situation changing also changed the thinking about future needs.
We also thought 6th gen would be 2 engines until recently. I think plaaf probably decided on supersonic quite a while back. They just let people think they are going for a B-2 like bomber so that the pentagon wouldn’t have as much time to counter it.
 

Biscuits

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We also thought 6th gen would be 2 engines until recently. I think plaaf probably decided on supersonic quite a while back. They just let people think they are going for a B-2 like bomber so that the pentagon wouldn’t have as much time to counter it.
I'm hoping for it as well, but so far there's really no evidence at all. While there is at least weak evidence for subsonic flying wing.

Ideally China continues to be revolutionary, and the most envelope pushing decision would be an all aspect stealth Tu-160/Tu-22M.

But honestly even a 4 engine flying wing has great potential in its own way, just from energy generation.
 

Jason_

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There is absolutely no way the H-20 will be a supersonic platform. Please stop with this silly idea. The H-20 will have four engines, the shape of a B-21, and the size of a B-2 or larger. The current NORAD is completely incapable of stopping a VLO subsonic flying wing.

The long term threat to VLO bombers are: 1. LEO satellite arrays 2. OTH HF radars 3. multi-static radars 4. passive ELINT sensors detecting reflected ambient (mostly civilian) RF signals. Being supersonic makes 1 worse and makes no difference to 2, 3, and 4.
 

mack8

Junior Member
I'm not sure exactly which post you are referring too, but I find the layout presented here to be interesting. Although I personally believe the H-20 is a subsonic flying wing.

A longer supersonic layout also presents the possibility for a longer weapons bay. Something often attributed to the cranked kite design in CG's of the H-20. However compared to the B-21's design with a uniform leading edge, studies have shown those sorts of wings are less stealthy. This is why I believe the H-20 is likely similar in shape to the B-21 and not exotic like shown below, or have folding stabilizers like in fan CG's.
Frustratingly, i haven't managed to find the post in question so far (maybe it wasn't on SDF but somewhere else?), hopefully someone must have seen it? The drawing in question reminded me of the B-2 from the front, probably because of the dorsal intakes.

I am aware that most PLAAF watchers believe H-20 to be subsonic but recent rumours of a supersonic H-20 are tantalizing to say the least. Would China be best served by merely mirroring what the US is doing ( ie subsonic H-20), or be bolder and more innovative to gain an advantage (supersonic H-20)?
On the question of range, does it really mater that much for China's strategy if a supersonic H-20 would have shorter range, it's not like they'd want to send it over San Diego to drop free fall bombs right? If they really want to attack the US mainland targets they could still use hypersonics and ALBMs including from the H-20. A combat radius reaching Hawaii would probably be enough, maximizing the aircraft's capability both standalone and within PLAAF's ecosystem to thwart and blunt any potential US aggression in the Western Pacific area, ie effectively countering and destroying US aircraft and naval forces attempting any operations within this area.
 

ying1978

New Member
Besides Stealth, the other main advantage of a subsonic flying wing is a high lift-to-drag ratio which gives rise to superior range. None of PLAAF's current asset has sufficient range and payload to threaten the US mainland. To fill this empty niche stealth, range, and payload should be the main design objectives. If H-20 aims for supersonic flight it will have to make major concession on range and its role will (partially) overlaps with the J-36.

Continued from Aiyi's earlier Weibo post about D30KP2. If AECC hypothetically develops a new WS-10 variant with 50% larger fan diameter just like the D30KP2 is based off the D30II with an upscaled fan, wouldn't this be the ideal fuel-efficient powerplant for a stealthy high subsonic flying wing?
 

sunnymaxi

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Continued from Aiyi's earlier Weibo post about D30KP2. If AECC hypothetically develops a new WS-10 variant with 50% larger fan diameter just like the D30KP2 is based off the D30II with an upscaled fan, wouldn't this be the ideal fuel-efficient powerplant for a stealthy high subsonic flying wing?
D-30KP engine emerged when even WS-10 wasn't available.

Medium bypass ratio engine...2.jpeg
i m consistently posting this image on different threads..

this flight was seen in early 2023.. Engine dimension indicate medium bypass ratio engine with large fan diameter. either WS-10 or WS-15 variant. China don't have any application for this type engine other than large stealth bomber like H-20 ..

H-20 will have WS-10/WS-15 family Engines.
 
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zyklon

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IMO a hypersonic non-VLO bomber would be quite pointless. at that point you might as well just produce more MIRVed ICBMs which are much faster and cheaper than a hypersonic bomber and can be produced in larger numbers.

It goes back to how much is an ICBM versus a reusable hypersonic bomber.

---

If we use the Trident missile as an example, you could buy one for $40? Million.

Alternatively, suppose you have a reusable ICBM like a Falcon 9 or Starship.
The reusable Falcon 9 launch costs are currently $15 Million for 17 tonnes

So how many of these would you have to launch before a hypersonic bomber is more cost efficient?

How about a FOBS, but instead of a fractional orbit, full orbits?
 

zyklon

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There is absolutely no way the H-20 will be a supersonic platform. Please stop with this silly idea.

Why is the possibility of a supersonic H-20 silly?

The J-20, and now the J-36, are both clear and visible examples of Chinese originality, and their willingness to embrace designs that diverge from the "gold standards" typically associated with and set by American designs.

With that said, what's to say the H-20 cannot diverge significantly from the B-2 and B-21?

The current NORAD is completely incapable of stopping a VLO subsonic flying wing.

I don't know if the current CG of NORAD would agree with that, and if he did, he'll certainly leverage such a truth for more funding for significant upgrades from Congress.

Should that occur, will a subsonic H-20 still suffice against NORAD by the time it reaches FOC?
 
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