H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

gelgoog said:

This JH-XX could be used for long distance maritime strike. Having a large supersonic bomber type aircraft would enable the use of higher speed anti shipping missiles. The faster the carrier platform is, the less energy the missile will have to expend to reach its target velocity.
Another possibility is direct strikes against second island chain targets without refueling, and third island chain targets with refueling.

One possible requirement is a larger weapons bay capable of launching longer range precision weapons.

However now that the J-20S has come out, and the WS-15 is available, I wonder if there is any added benefit in designing a specific twin engine bomber airframe. The J-16 could easily be replaced with some J-20S variant.

Click to expand...

This is already addressed above, including the maritime strike role.
Everyone agrees that JH-XX could fill a role that other platforms do not, but the question is whether it is worthwhile enough to actually develop and buy it.


I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but right now there's basically nothing new that can be said about a notional JH-XX, as it ultimately just comes down to whether the opportunity cost for it is worthwhile in context of the other aerospace projects the PLA is pursuing.
IMO unless we have any credible rumours suggesting JH-XX is actually under development, there really isn't too much more than can be said about JH-XX which hasn't already been surgically peeled apart and examined over the last ten years.

Blitzo said:

This is already addressed above, including the maritime strike role.
Everyone agrees that JH-XX could fill a role that other platforms do not, but the question is whether it is worthwhile enough to actually develop and buy it.


I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but right now there's basically nothing new that can be said about a notional JH-XX, as it ultimately just comes down to whether the opportunity cost for it is worthwhile in context of the other aerospace projects the PLA is pursuing.
IMO unless we have any credible rumours suggesting JH-XX is actually under development, there really isn't too much more than can be said about JH-XX which hasn't already been surgically peeled apart and examined over the last ten years.

Click to expand...

I kinda feel it might have been something that planners have seriously thought about, but new developments (planes and drones) and changes might have shot down the plan/proposal/idea.

I really think we might see both the next 6th gen fighter take some of the anticipated roles from the JH-XX along with the H-20 and most importantly, some newer drones.

The last one I see as possible the biggest reason, especially if we envision some higher speed 'missiles truck' that's only supposed to get up in speed and altitude to fire missiles while not caring about tracking or the likes.

Edit: also, everyone should also remember that missile development has not stopped, so we shouldn't only think of pl15 and its '200 km range', but some possible pl17 or 21 with possible say 300km or 400km range.

Yankeesama is now entertaining the possibility that China's 6th gen fighter might be unveiled before H-20. At least this shows he thinks H-20 is still quite a bit away from its first flight (a point when it becomes much harder to hide from the public).


It's obvious that H-20 program was delayed from the original schedule. How likely was the delay a result of WS-15's smooth progress? A higher bypass WS-15 seems the most logical choice for H-20. Given H-20 is a lower priority program compared to fighters, it seems not unreasonable to wait for the target engine. Anyone knows of the work required for a higher bypass WS-15? Suppose the work began a couple years ago, when can we reasonably expect a flight test on the Y-20 platform?

Why would that cause delays? There is bound to be a version of WS-15 with similar dimensions as the WS-10. How else are they going to fit it into the J-20? They could just swap engines before they started mass production if the engine was ready.

I do not understand why H-20 is not flying already.

gelgoog said:

Why would that cause delays? There is bound to be a version of WS-15 with similar dimensions as the WS-10. How else are they going to fit it into the J-20? They could just swap engines before they started mass production if the engine was ready.

I do not understand why H-20 is not flying already.

Click to expand...

Easy. It was simply not a priority, which I can easily understand. Effective ASuW, anti-air and ability to disable nearby bases were much more important for China. All nations have limited resources which they have to use wisely.

OppositeDay said:

Yankeesama is now entertaining the possibility that China's 6th gen fighter might be unveiled before H-20. At least this shows he thinks H-20 is still quite a bit away from its first flight (a point when it becomes much harder to hide from the public).

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It's obvious that H-20 program was delayed from the original schedule. How likely was the delay a result of WS-15's smooth progress? A higher bypass WS-15 seems the most logical choice for H-20. Given H-20 is a lower priority program compared to fighters, it seems not unreasonable to wait for the target engine. Anyone knows of the work required for a higher bypass WS-15? Suppose the work began a couple years ago, when can we reasonably expect a flight test on the Y-20 platform?

Click to expand...

We already saw something like this. Deino shared it here. Looks like a non-afterburning turbofan with a bypass that is higher than a fighter engine but still low.

IMO a higher bypass WS-15 would make a lot of sense. It is almost certain that the WS-15's turbine and compressor are a lot more efficient. The engine is also more powerful, enabling a bigger aircraft. I don't see any reason why they would use the WS-10 unless the design is already somewhat mature.

gelgoog said:

Why would that cause delays? There is bound to be a version of WS-15 with similar dimensions as the WS-10. How else are they going to fit it into the J-20? They could just swap engines before they started mass production if the engine was ready.

I do not understand why H-20 is not flying already.

Click to expand...

Perhaps the PLAAF thinks it's better and more crucial to leapfrog the US in fighter technology versus developing a VLO bomber that by the time it enters service, will still be behind the most optimal bomber technology and with an uncertain future against 6th gen aircraft and having to face the NGAD.

On another note, JH-XX might be even more uncertain with the J-20B now existing, might as well just go down the Strike Eagle route instead.

H20 is basically the most important project for PLAAF, higher than 6th gen. If there is any delays, this is likely related to difficulties in development and/or 6th gen coming along faster than expected.

Keep in mind that 6th gen itself with its ultra long range and fly wing (+likely all aspect stealth) configuration will likely be able to be quite good at strike missions too if you pair it with UCAVs

I do not get why you people think this high bypass turbofan, if it is that, would be for the H-20 bomber project.
If it is a flying wing, you would want the opposite in fact, a pretty low bypass ratio, otherwise it will be harder to hide the turbine fan blades. And the flying wing would look like a hunchback.

Do anyone know if the F118 turbofan engines (a non-afterburning derivative of the F110) used on the B-2 Spirit VLO bomber has a low bypass ratio or a high bypass ratio?

ACuriousPLAFan said:

Do anyone know if the F118 turbofan engines (a non-afterburning derivative of the F110) used on the B-2 Spirit VLO bomber has a low bypass ratio or a high bypass ratio?

Click to expand...

They typically use non-afterburning versions of fighter jet turbofans on these. It’s a bit hard to say “typical” given we only really have 2 examples (YB-35 and 49 don’t really count). The B-2 uses non-afterburning F-118s.

The B-21 is going to use a non-afterburning version of something very close to a F-135. This is probably as high a bypass as you would get, otherwise you’d end up with a flying block. For VLO stealth bombers the engines need to be deeply embedded with fan blades concealed and IR reduction at the exhaust end. Trying to do this with high bypass engines will begin to impede the design and aerodynamics. In any case, flying wings already produce a lot of lift, are fuel efficient and have internal space/volume for a lot of fuel to be stored already.