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Deleted member 675
Guest
China's economy may be larger than currently estimated, but it's still quite a way behind in terms of things like GDP per capita, social security, public spending, etc.
Guangdong overtakes Taiwan
- Thread starter SampanViking
- Start date
China's economy may be larger than currently estimated, but it's still quite a way behind in terms of things like GDP per capita, social security, public spending, etc.
In other words slow.
Guangzhou is quite well developed from an infrastructure standpoint.
Roger604
Senior Member
That's amazing. You've never met any pro-KMT Taiwanese? You associate exclusively with strongly pro-DPP Taiwanese?
That Taiwan's GDP per capita is 3.5 - 4 times greater than China's?
That Taiwan's real GDP per capita is already at parity with rich mainland provinces and cities.
PPP calculations are very tricky. GDP deflater is a much more reliable way of calculating real wealth.
If you chose a basket of goods that is not representative of what is actually consumed by locals (i.e. butter and bread, for example), you will get a skewed result.
One way of bypassing these problems, and also the issue of a large black / grey market is to look exclusively at demand. Domestic demand is strong and growing. Exporters are strong and growing. Savings are still high. All this is happening even in the face of relatively high inflation. If anything, real growth may be as high as the export growth rate -- around 13%.
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Deleted member 675
Guest
Please don't make this thread political. But actually they weren't members of either party.
Which provinces (with sources, please)? In any case, anyone can cherry-pick the rich out of the poorer areas in any country. You have to look at the whole.
Cities? Oh come on, now you're being daft.
Violet Oboe
Junior Member
Not that I'm prone to whining but having posted on ´Taiwan Military Thread´ about Guangdong being on course to overtake Taiwan's GDP this year a couple of months ago, I got the whip from one of our moderators (... guess who!).
Indeed the repercussions for Taiwan's military politics are significant and the continuous falling behind process of Taiwan's economy will inevitably have a negative impact on ROCA's ability to compete with PLA's overwhelmingly expanding resources.
(...just a small annotation for Mr.Fu: Weapons and soldiers are expensive toys and the state has to pay for them in M-O-N-E-Y, consequently there exists a direct relation between available state income (taxes, tolls, public debt ...) and the military budget. Unfortunately the bigwigs in a country meanwhile faded into oblivion had the bad habit to order the mightiest weapons before taking care of ´trivial economics´..., as we all and even taiwanese military planners know that came to very bad end!)
). Indeed the repercussions for Taiwan's military politics are significant and the continuous falling behind process of Taiwan's economy will inevitably have a negative impact on ROCA's ability to compete with PLA's overwhelmingly expanding resources.
(...just a small annotation for Mr.Fu: Weapons and soldiers are expensive toys and the state has to pay for them in M-O-N-E-Y, consequently there exists a direct relation between available state income (taxes, tolls, public debt ...) and the military budget. Unfortunately the bigwigs in a country meanwhile faded into oblivion had the bad habit to order the mightiest weapons before taking care of ´trivial economics´...
, as we all and even taiwanese military planners know that came to very bad end!)
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Deleted member 675
Guest
The thread guidelines were clearly posted - the subsequent mod reaction was your own fault for ignoring the rules.
Violet, you win a prize for stating the bleeding obvious.
I never questioned the fact that China's economic rise has allowed it to increase the defence budget. What I questioned was how one province surpassing Taiwan's GDP would change the military balance - that event doesn't award the PLA a $ multi-billion bonus.
I don't see why people are making such a big deal out of this. It is perfectly natural and is destined to happen. It would be absurd to believe that Taiwan would ever be able to match much of China's output, and it would be absurd to try to critize Taiwan for failing to. Imagine that New Jersey is independent from the rest of the US. Now imagine people trying to analyze the fact New Jersey has less economic ouput than New York. It's obvious, New York has NTC and the entire US to back its economy up, and NEw Jersey just has New Jersey! So its obvious that Guangdong, the most economically vibrant region of China, would overtake Taiwan, since they are relatively equal in size. I don't see why people seem to think that this is something to be worried about, or gloat about, or figure into a military situation. It's not like the size of Guangdong's economy is going to subtract anything from Taiwan's military budget or even affect it at all. Sure, the potential amount the PRC can outspend the ROC by will grow with the PRC's economy, but that amount is already so large that this particular news item doesn't really mean anything. Again, its the New Jersey vs. the rest of the US situation. One cannot expect New Jersey to match the rest of the US's miliary spending.
Well I warned you we would end up here - never mind
I think thats a bit ungracious Finn, I would say that this is significant Milestone in China's development, the first of a number that seem likely in the next few years. I also think that your New York/New Jersey analogy would work better if New Jersey was (for the purposes of illustration only) the last holdout of the confederacy.
No Mr Fu this event does not of itself change the military/economic balance of itself, but it does illustrate with great clarity the degree to which the balance has shifted and continues to shift. It comes back to the guns or butter arguments, what exactly can all the extra expenditure actually achieve for the Taiwanese military? extra weeks? days? hours? minutes? is Taiwan now going to fall in an ever vicious circle of increased military spending that can achieve little more than reduce the speed that the gap between it and the PRC is opening and to do so at the expense of vital public services? Sure this is nothing new, but it really brings the scale of the matter into context and offers a far clearer perspective than many would have previously appreciated.
This is not going to be an isolated event, as another 4 provinces are likely to repeat the same trick in the next 5 years. In that time Guangdong will; at a sustained current rate have more than doubled its GDP again and will; by even the most pessimistic measure of PPP have achieved a standard of living comparable with Taiwan's.
I think thats a bit ungracious Finn, I would say that this is significant Milestone in China's development, the first of a number that seem likely in the next few years. I also think that your New York/New Jersey analogy would work better if New Jersey was (for the purposes of illustration only) the last holdout of the confederacy.
No Mr Fu this event does not of itself change the military/economic balance of itself, but it does illustrate with great clarity the degree to which the balance has shifted and continues to shift. It comes back to the guns or butter arguments, what exactly can all the extra expenditure actually achieve for the Taiwanese military? extra weeks? days? hours? minutes? is Taiwan now going to fall in an ever vicious circle of increased military spending that can achieve little more than reduce the speed that the gap between it and the PRC is opening and to do so at the expense of vital public services? Sure this is nothing new, but it really brings the scale of the matter into context and offers a far clearer perspective than many would have previously appreciated.
This is not going to be an isolated event, as another 4 provinces are likely to repeat the same trick in the next 5 years. In that time Guangdong will; at a sustained current rate have more than doubled its GDP again and will; by even the most pessimistic measure of PPP have achieved a standard of living comparable with Taiwan's.
Violet Oboe
Junior Member
For bringing the ´lost brother´back into the fold you need a ´strong arm´ but also a forgiving embrace! :china:
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don't push it...
Gollevainen
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don't push it...
Gollevainen
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