Global Chinese diplomatic presence and intervention?

Michaelsinodef said:

You have to understand that communism really haven't been implemented anywhere, atmost we have some states in different 'stages' of socialism as for when they become 'communist' or achieve it? We don't really know, neither do we really know how that communism they achieve will look like because there's lots of discussions and arguments for how it should look like.

As for India and the US turning 'communist'? Well you might have meant more like current China, which is a marxist leninist state/nation that self identifies as only being at the 'low stages' of socialism.

And well, such development isn't gonna happen in just a few years for either India or US, even if changes were starting today (especially India).

Even if we said both transitioned to such a state in 20 years, there's the big hope that we will actually see good partnership and working together against challenges (like climate change), although ofc, there's always the chance that we will see a fallout, just like the one that occured between China and the USSR.

Although, even if they did reach to become a ML country in 20 years, it's likely it won't be anywhere near a peaceful transistion, and actually having power to 'challenge' or fight China is likely not gonna be there for decades (unless we say a nuclear war happened between China and US, but then I don't think that India or US would turn to become ML states).

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Hard disagree. A transition to communism will have immediate effect after few years of transition anarchy. True India will not be magically richer, but the level of accountability go way up and high level corruption go way down. USA will immediately nationalize all MIC and obtain reasonable procurement and purge their influence on diplomacy. You seem to think only in terms of economic size and ignore the political bottleneck entirely. I am saying overcoming political hurdles has immediate effect on national power.

drowingfish said:

you need to understand that the whole point of communism was to eliminate states/countries, as it is deemed a capitalist construct. of course debates will arise on how to get there, for example you have trotsky's permanent revolution vs stalin's socialism in one country. taken at face value there will be no communist India or China or USA, as they cease to exist as independent states. it is simply an alliance of proletariat in all of these geographical regions.

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Bad argument. No matter what level of communism if it get them out of their current shitty state it is a win for them, and a win for them is not always a win for China.

TK3600 said:

Hard disagree. A transition to communism will have immediate effect after few years of transition anarchy. True India will not be magically richer, but the level of accountability go way up and high level corruption go way down. USA will immediately nationalize all MIC and obtain reasonable procurement and purge their influence on diplomacy. You seem to think only in terms of economic size and ignore the political bottleneck entirely. I am saying overcoming political hurdles has immediate effect on national power.

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Again, no they would not transition to become communist. They could transition to become a Marxist Leninist state/nation which is what China is.

And like I said, the above happening is pretty darn slim and the conditions really aren't there for either India or US, at least not within the next few years, and when the conditions become right, it's also gonna be a longer process for them to change over (not to mention collapse, civil war etc. can also always happen).

Again, level of communism is irrelevant. No matter which level it improves on their current condition. It is a good thing they have slim chance of turning "socialist" (happy?) but certainly China do not owe them favor to help.

TK3600 said:

Again, level of communism is irrelevant. No matter which level it improves on their current condition. It is a good thing they have slim chance of turning "socialist" (happy?) but certainly China do not owe them favor to help.

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Their conditions might dive first which in return results in a revolution that results in a 'communist' government.

Anyways, doesn't really matter much since current policy of China is non-intervionist, and even if that policy were to change, it likely still wouldn't mean it would help either India or US.

I see much ado about nothing. Especially few bases in Philippines which will be destroyed the instant any war vs USA happens. USA is still 10,000km+ away.

USA got a few useless bases in Philippines. Thats their only "win" recently. China got Russia basically on their side now with no other option to go back to USA or eu. China got Iran/Saudi deal, which is a massive sign of things to come, they are applying for BRICS/SCO and even if they don't make it in, it's clear as day that iran Saudi/gulf/Arab ties are shifting in china's favor and away from USA. Indonesia and asean in general are all on china's side(economics) no one wants to side with USA economically or militarily. turkey is "us NATO ally", but also buys s400 and sanctioned by USA and wants to join BRICS and sco.

Even eu like France making statements clear as day about not involved in Taiwan and not being a us vassal. USA has failed to convince anyone in eu, their supposed allies to go against china and decouple.

More and more are doing bilateral currency swap with China and trading using Yuan and side stepping USA.

Things are going great for China. It is an economic war, not military. in military war, no one wins, and if it does go hot, china Russia nk alone can handle anything usa tries in west pac. SK Japan Taiwan Philippines cannot do shit. They will be cannon fodder and sacrificed by USA. That's their whole job. USA won't attack China or Russia mainlands. They didn't during Korean war, they won't today even more since China and Russia can wipe USA mainland off the planet also.

If anything usa forces occupying Japan/sk/Philippines is good, USA keeps them feeling cozy and secure, when in reality USA will sacrifice them if anything happens. If USA wasnt there, Japan and sk would build nukes for sure, and militarize way harder. USA is basically keeping them weak and reliant on USA, not letting them grow too strong both economically and militarily. This is good for China and allows things to be easier, in the same way boratas says it's better to align with vn and kick Philippines out of SCS. China and USA are the two dominant powers and USA and China can and imo will make rapprochement in the future when China is stronger and USA has played their last cards and realize China cannot be contained anymore.

China is still biding her time and hiding her strength to a degree, even if it's much harder now. But in reality it could be much much worse. China is still building up assets and growing at record speeds relative to USA, so why would it rock the boat? That's what usa wants.

Even today, USA far underestimates china and has not picked up their game at all. China is still building like double or triple what USA is in terms of navy and other stuff, and even if Japan or whatever get a few more shitty rockets, so what? China is building thousands of nukes and will reach parity soon. Once China has thousand or more, all talk of war with China will end once and for all.

Just wait another 10-20 years, you will see. China is laying the groundwork now with diplomacy, like in ME, Africa, and even Europe and USA, leaving the door still open and not fully committing yet while it keeps building it's strength. Then all of a sudden dozens of overseas bases will open all at once. If China starts now, it will only galvanize USA and the rest to wake up and counter china for real and it will only hinder china's growth which is the most important thing. Time is on china's side, it doesn't need to change anything, even with all these provocations.

Sure, china loses some face if Philippines talks back, but so what? China will have the last laugh while if anything happens Philippines will be the one destroyed. Talk is cheap. China doesn't need to talk, just continue growing in strength. If they dare, let them cross chinas red lines. If they dare, let Philippines and USA sail navy and kick china off the islands and attack china's SCS bases. USA can sail ships in SCS all it wants, its just empty provocation and doesn't change anything that matters, which is china's rise.

the 3 strategic moves that helped establish Zhu Yuanzhang' Ming Dynasty are still applicable today:
1, Build up and fortify city walls ( strong defenses ),
2, Store up food supplies ( safeguard food and energy supplies ), and
3, slow to proclaim kingship ( strong and effective diplomacy forging alliances, and avoiding blustering hegemony ).
seems like Beijing is wisely making the above moves......

Whats everyone's thoughts on China's diplomacy in the New Era (新时代中国外交)?

I think its safe to say PRC entered a third phase in its foreign policy (Mao, Deng, and Xi), one that is not scared to challenge the status quo territorial claims of existing countries e.g., Liuqiu, Baltic states.

China has to change and so must our conceptions of Chinese foreign policy, no more getting held back by Dengist policies and quotes.

First, what about the relationship between PRC/CPC and the Maoists in Philippine and India. Perhaps hosting a few more global interparty conventions would be beneficial, similar to CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) which also often hosts events outside US to link up with conservative parties worldwide.

Second, maybe China can join in a few more independence movements e.g., the East Timor model. One area that stands out right now is India's North East region.

coolgod said:

Whats everyone's thoughts on China's diplomacy in the New Era (新时代中国外交)?

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I think its safe to say PRC entered a third phase in its foreign policy (Mao, Deng, and Xi), one that is not scared to challenge the status quo territorial claims of existing countries e.g., Liuqiu, Baltic states.

China has to change and so must our conceptions of Chinese foreign policy, no more getting held back by Dengist policies and quotes.

First, what about the relationship between PRC/CPC and the Maoists in Philippine and India. Perhaps hosting a few more global interparty conventions would be beneficial, similar to CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) which also often hosts events outside US to link up with conservative parties worldwide.

Second, maybe China can join in a few more independence movements e.g., the East Timor model. One area that stands out right now is India's North East region.

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Not now ... there is a very little benefit to China's geopolitics currently

China now should concentrate to the big bully + the puppets ... the last thing China need is adding new "enemy" (i.e India, Philippine, etc)

Perhaps support it discreetly, but not openly and use it as one of the cards against those countries that maybe useful in the future

coolgod said:

Whats everyone's thoughts on China's diplomacy in the New Era (新时代中国外交)?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I think its safe to say PRC entered a third phase in its foreign policy (Mao, Deng, and Xi), one that is not scared to challenge the status quo territorial claims of existing countries e.g., Liuqiu, Baltic states.

China has to change and so must our conceptions of Chinese foreign policy, no more getting held back by Dengist policies and quotes.

First, what about the relationship between PRC/CPC and the Maoists in Philippine and India. Perhaps hosting a few more global interparty conventions would be beneficial, similar to CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) which also often hosts events outside US to link up with conservative parties worldwide.

Second, maybe China can join in a few more independence movements e.g., the East Timor model. One area that stands out right now is India's North East region.

Click to expand...

China is holding out on India as usual, only time can tell if it was a good idea. Holding out on Saudi turned out to be really good, but there's no obvious way to know India would work in the same way.

Right now, Beijing is focused on oil politics. Iraq needs to be brought into line, after that, China has largely secured the middle east and may be able to pick up Israel too.

But if China isn't able to pick Israel, it's also a really good flashpoint. For cultural reasons, it's like America's balls. If US ever gets crazy regarding it's territorial aggression in Asia, China can always squeeze it's balls (Israel) to make America drop everything else and come running to defend them.

Personally I always believe that China should bait US to invade directly and use it as an opportunity to demilitarize and denazify America permanently, but this isn't what most of the communist party wants. Instead, they use proxy conflicts to bleed US slowly and safely without involving China itself, at snail pace.

Which means after Ukraine war, it is likely that we will have the Iran war, or maybe Israel war. That'll be the next distraction, while China will probably brew something in South America as that is ongoing.