Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

Canuck place said:

Well it's what Huawei has been dreading. @tidalwave did predict it. Could this be the end of their consumer electronics section?

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Not necessary they can redesign the SOC using 14 nm technology that SMIC posses Just not as efficient but can be done Anyway the US sourced content for the newest Huawei smart phone is only 1% The corning glass that can easily be replaced. The same with Dram and oled display
Huawei teardown shows US ban made company turn to Chinese parts

I want to be an optimist, but the truth is that they can't, unless SMIC does not use any U.S. material or equipment, which I don't think is likely. The only way out of this is, is to retaliate against the US by banning medical equipment exports. There likely will be a massive second wave of the virus because Trump is a moron, and they will be desperate for equipment when millions more of COVID cases overwhelm their healthcare system in a month time

Just found some really interesting news on the Shanghai Academy of Sciences site (Translated text below)

　Researcher Situ Guohai, the director of the laboratory, made a summary report of the laboratory's annual work in 2019 . In 2019 , a number of 02 special projects undertaken by the laboratory made important progress. The undertaken "lighting system development and small-batch production capacity building" project has entered the manufacturing stage at 28nm lighting system product development, and 110nm lighting system product development has been completed The system performance is self- tested and is in the integration stage; the 02 special project " Research on Multi-channel Image Quality Inspection Technology for Immersion Lithography Machine " has completed the parallel detection of 9- channel wave aberration; SMO key graphic screening technology for computing lithography research tasks , The performance is better than the similar technology in ASML 's computational lithography software. At the same time, the laboratory has made significant progress in computational optical imaging technology, using deep learning methods to achieve scatterer imaging with an optical thickness of 13.4.

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Back in the 90s there were already rampant accusation against Huawei in the US for stealing cisco router source codes. US government wont do nothing about it. The reason they held off is wait for huawei to become a bigger Fry and the US government would step in and punish it so maximum fines would be collected through plea of guilty and leniency. That's US government general strategy.

Huawei needs to pay for its negligence of geopolitical risk. The warning signs were there in the 90s. They need to get into chip manufacturing back in the 90s. But they were happy to outsource and never bother to invest in chip manufacturing.
They also looked down on SMIC back in the days.
They could easily acquire SMIC back then and Hisilicon and SMIC would become under their umbrella. SMIC almost died when it got sued by TSMC and paid a huge fine for settlement.Huawei could be proactive and step in and acquire SMIC.
They need to do IDM model and they missed the window.

Going forward China needs to double or triple down on EUV efforts.. Current pace is lacking.
There is no other choices. Punishment off US companies hopefully to deter US government wont solve long term issue.

I applauded US government this decision because it would help China to make up its mind.

Taiwan becoming more and more anti China. So China needs to stop using taiwan semiconductor anyway

tidalwave said:

Back in the 90s there were already rampant accusation against Huawei in the US for stealing cisco router source codes. US government wont do nothing about it. The reason they held off is wait for huawei to become a bigger Fry and the US government would step in and punish it so maximum fines would be collected through plea of guilty and leniency. That's US government general strategy.

Huawei needs to pay for its negligence of geopolitical risk. The warning signs were there in the 90s. They need to get into chip manufacturing back in the 90s. But they were happy to outsource and never bother to invest in chip manufacturing.
They also looked down on SMIC back in the days.
They could easily acquire SMIC back then and Hisilicon and SMIC would become under their umbrella. SMIC almost died when it got sued by TSMC and paid a huge fine for settlement.Huawei could be proactive and step in and acquire SMIC.
They need to do IDM model and they missed the window.

Going forward China needs to double or triple down on EUV efforts.. Current pace is lacking.
There is no other choices. Punishment off US companies hopefully to deter US government wont solve long term issue.

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Assuming there are no loopholes around this, how many years do you think this sets Huawei back? Will this impact Huawei's 5G development?

Hendrik_2000 said:

Not necessary they can redesign the SOC using 14 nm technology that SMIC posses Just not as efficient but can be done Anyway the US sourced content for the newest Huawei smart phone is only 1% The corning glass that can easily be replaced. The same with Dram and oled display
Huawei teardown shows US ban made company turn to Chinese parts

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View attachment 59894

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Hi I am a long time lurker here and this is my first post
What I wanted to say is that this key components graph for this Huawei phone is not very accurate because it says HiSilicon made the processing and modem chip and antenna switch and it counts it as "sourced from China" but in reality they are fabless and only designed the chips. TSMC probably manufactured these components and these components will get affected by the new restrictions imposed by the US. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong

soon to be seen what tsmc will do. The message to taiwan will be loud and clear: you are risking everything!

SoupDumplings said:

Assuming there are no loopholes around this, how many years do you think this sets Huawei back? Will this impact Huawei's 5G development?

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Alot of factors at work.
Chinese government needs to step in and let SMIC know to ignore US and continue to produce for huawei. Virus thing helped the delay of 5g deployment as SMIC pseudo 7nm will come out end of end of this year.
Now China government has to actively prevent others from flooding the Chinese market in upcoming years with 5nm
parts as Huawei has no access to this technology.
Blocking Apple, Qualcomm and Mediatek 5nm parts into the Chinese market will potentially make this technology prohibitively expensive.

Possible to make everyone stay at 7nm if 5nm blocked at China market. This gambit could pay off.

China government should implement this actively

tidalwave said:

Alot of factors at work.
Chinese government needs to step in and let SMIC know to ignore US and continue to produce for huawei. Virus thing helped the delay of 5g deployment as SMIC pseudo 7nm will come out end of end of this year.
Now China government has to actively prevent others from flooding the Chinese market in upcoming years with 5nm
parts as Huawei has no access to this technology.
Blocking Apple, Qualcomm and Mediatek 5nm parts into the Chinese market will potentially make this technology prohibitively expensive.

Possible to make everyone stay at 7nm if 5nm blocked at China market. This gambit could pay off.

China government should implement this actively

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This is impossible. If China prohibits 5nm, the companies will simply manufacture 5nm for the rest of the world and 7nm for China.

Then in a few years there will be 3nm. Does China prohibit 3nm? So China has 7nm while the rest of the world has 3nm?

What about when 2nm/1nm is figured out? It doesn't work that way.

This is why I advocate a medical supply export ban as retaliation for this attack on Huawei. All other measures don't work or are ineffective.

tidalwave said:

Alot of factors at work.
Chinese government needs to step in and let SMIC know to ignore US and continue to produce for huawei. Virus thing helped the delay of 5g deployment as SMIC pseudo 7nm will come out end of end of this year.
Now China government has to actively prevent others from flooding the Chinese market in upcoming years with 5nm
parts as Huawei has no access to this technology.
Blocking Apple, Qualcomm and Mediatek 5nm parts into the Chinese market will potentially make this technology prohibitively expensive.

Possible to make everyone stay at 7nm if 5nm blocked at China market. This gambit could pay off.

China government should implement this actively

Click to expand...

Hmm. This is very worrying. Considering that the US has already been able to pressure ASML, China may not even be able to get the equipment to produce 5nm chips. This could severely delay China's technological development.