Just muzing. Half a century ago NATO talked about a common Polaris force based on merchant ship type hulls, a pretty daft idea, especially launching large ballitic missiles from a storm tossed merchant hull. But what about a Small Waterplane Twin Hull vessel carrying DF-21 type missiles in the pylon(s) on one hull, having above the other hull the bridge, radar, SAMs, &c. and using the deck structure in between to store, service and launch helicopters, UAVs, &c?
Future PLAN Forecast Thread: Number, disposition, etc.
- Thread starter USAalltheway
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
Not really a problem. Blast deflectors could be temporarily added fairly quickly, easily and cheaply, and removed just as easily to allow the ship to resume normal operations.
As for ventilation. Simply leaving a LCAC in the back of the hold and switching on its engines would be more than enough to blast any harmful gasses out the open hatch in quick order.
Indeed, but replenishing the missiles might be a problem since the 071 does not have carrier style lifts.
Not really an insurmountable obstacle. You might have to navalise the radar, but that is only a modest upgrade and will within the abilities of many nations.
If you are willing to use the concept as part of a larger defense strategy, there is no reason why a radar needs to be put to sea at all. Its hardly unheard of these days to have buddy targeting. A bit of tweaking and you could potentially have AWACS, fighters and other ships sending targeting info to a forward deployed force of LCACs carrying S300 launchers.
The element of surprise could have a huge impact as fighter formations would not realize they have wondered into a SAM's optimum engagement zone until their MAWS pick up the missiles, by which point its probably too late against something like the S300 and HQ9.
Depending on the range of the LCAC, this might become an effective way of providing mobile air defense to 022 FAC formations without having to use large warships or air cover, which could easily give away the position of the 022s and defeat their main advantage.
The PLAN is probably moving beyond the need for such systems with the introduction of the 054A, and the rumored new batch of 052C+s being built as well as the varyag and up coming indigenous carriers.
But such a combo may make for a very tempting buy for many navies facing superior foes.
The Pakistani navy would be a top possibility, as well as possibly Iran (if UN sanctions are every lifted) etc.
Btw, plawolf, your suggestion of lcac launching s300 is one off the craziest ideas I have heard on this forum. Don't hold out that much hope in these lcac, let us just how they can do what they are designed to do.
Agreed..
How would missiles be fitted on an LCAC? Impossible. That's what DDGs are for.
Yes I know the Allies had rocket barges in WWII.
Also those rockets are smaller than modern VLS launched missiles too, so seakeeping was less problematic as a matter of course.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Just because something is 'crazy' does not necessarily mean its not possible.
bd popepye said:
Well if the LCAC is wide enough, a S300 launch vehicle could simply drive on and erect the missiles for launch.
The interesting thing with a cold launch S300 is that you may not even need to put down blast protection.
The S300 might be a bit of a stretch, but a Tor could certainly fit on the LCAC quite comfortably, and would be a good means of providing air defense a lot more effectively that the AKs on the 022s.
As for using major surface combatants, well that would certainly be the preferred method, but not everyone can afford modern FFGs and DDGs. And those DDGs and FFGs would be prime targets for the enemy, so they might not actually last that long against a far superior enemy.
Even if you have major combatants that can hold their own, those DDGs and FFGs would be not be the best escort for a wolfpack of 022s as the size of the warship would make it easier to detect and thus compromise the FAC's primary defensive and offensive advantage of stealth and surprise.
Considering that the 022s would almost certainly be relying of other friendly platforms to provide targeting information, adding off-board targeting for SAMs would not be a massive jump in support requirements or operating procedure.
Far more 'crazy' ideas have become everyday norms in the past.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
But to make them cinders you must first find them. There can be no denying that a 022 or LCAC would be a lot harder to locate than a warship, especially if they are relying on off-board sensors.
If the LCAC is operating in support of 022s, the chances of any major warship getting to within naval gun range of them would be remote to say the least.
Modern heavy-weight AShMs unsuited to engaging small, fast moving targets, and an LCAC packing some Tors would be an ideal counter to the FAC's natural predator - the armed naval helo.
In war time, 022 FACs will be operating independent of major surface combatants and will be relying on stealth and off-board sensors to try and bring down their target. Having some LCACs with SAMs riding shotgun would significantly increase the survivability of 022 wolfpacks with a minimal of additional risk and cost.
After all, better that the enemy turn a few FAC and LCACs into cinders than a FFG or DDG.
Two words immediately come to mind: Rube Goldberg. And not in a good way.
TBH I didn't bother to take this particular mental exercise to a logical conclusion, since I agree with popeye and tphuang about the craziness of this idea; the possibility of the 071 or the LCAC being used as a platform for DH-10 or S-300 launchers is just about zero. There are other obviously far more suited platforms for these missiles.
These particular LCAC's aren't like Zubrs. They aren't designed to operate independently of their motherships the 071's. And the 071's aren't designed to operate independently without fleet defense. Thus the LCAC's and 071's will always be under the air defenses of a fleet. Thus the need for an LCAC and 071 to completely waste their potential and design as troop and vehicle transports is just about zero.
And while you can navalize the radars, you certainly cannot navalize the launchers, which are not designed for launch at sea, to speak nothing of having to launch from an inherently unstable platform like a floating cushion bobbing around in the ocean waves. Surely you have noticed the four stabilizer pistons on these launchers that lower to the ground to steady the launcher for firing. And that's on dry land.
If a radar can find a periscope sticking up a few feet above the surface of the water (and it can), the chance a radar cannot see an unstealthy LCAC with a giant even more unstealthy SAM launcher sitting on deck is just about zero.
The craziness of an idea is inversely proportional to the likelihood of the idea being adopted by anybody.Just because something is 'crazy' does not necessarily mean its not possible.
There are evidences that China is working on integrated electrical propulsion -- the link to xinhua article contain information on the development of dual direct/alternate current generators and motors which improves efficiency of integrated propulsion system by eliminated unnecessary alternate/direct current conversion.