TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
With the JSGDF working on there own Marine corps, I wonder if They nigh be looking at the EDA-R for some of there mission needs?
France Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter navyreco
- Start date
kwaigonegin
Colonel
The Mistral deal has gotten more complicated. France has created the conditions, for Russia to invoke what's called a "réscision pour vice radical". I.E. in French Law, it is a contract concluded by two parties, where one party, ties retroactively the contract, despite prior clauses (ToT, Part-building, licensing etc) to a new and irrelevant cause and effect, which can be taken to face value as a conspiration/ dolus to never deliver on its part of the contract. IE France built two ships with Russian money, that it intended to sell to another party...
This is supported by the fact that France hasn't any barrier or case of 'force majeure' that blocks it from delivering the ships. As both Ships are unarmed, they can't be any contest about weapons transfer; As the goods are pre-paid, there can't be any contest about arrears. It also derives from the French attempts to resell ships it hasn't full rights, while it had said it will deliver them. The evershifting French Position makes it clear that the Vendor has never had ANY intention to deliver the ships. It was made worse by the lax security on the vessels which resultes in diverse thefts (including two laptops with sensitive material from the ships). Off course this is the angle Russian attorneys need to attack. Because France is litterally defenceless on that point.
France hasn't a chance in hell to get out of this without shelling out serious money.
Maybe Bernad and Forbin and verify this?
Back to bottling my Grenache
Personally I believe this deal is far from over. In reality France is not as concern about Russia's adventures in Ukraine as US/NATO..at least not to a point of losing billions of dollars that that have pretty much in hand.
They will stand to lose much more as you said. It all boils down to how much more they are willing to compromise due to pressures from NATO and the US.
I think they might just have run out of time to compromise. If Russia had taken some additional steps to implement the Minsk compromise, France might have been able to hand over the ships without looking too bad to their allies.
To me it looks as if Russia now prefers their money back (+ a compensation for the broken contract) instead of getting some ships which always have been controversial at home - so the russians have little reason to be conciliatory.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
possibly.. either way looks like France will come out being the biggest loser unless they cut some deals. Talk about a seller's regret. I bet DCNS and her subsidiaries probably wished they never sign the contract building those ships!
If you ask me Ithink deep down inside Russia still want those ships though although they have to 'appear' nonchalant on their public facade like it's no biggie just give us our $$ back and we call it even kinda deal..
Well, right now Japan already has six LCAC craft.
Now, as they move forward and think about ultimately retiring their LCACs will the JMSDF go with the US new connector, or with the French EDA-R? Who knows? But my money is on the US Connector-LCAC follow-on.
But it never hurts to train crossdecking with these things in any case. shows the viability of Joint Operations with your allies. If the EDA-R will fit into and work for an Osumi...then it would also fit into and work for a Austin, Whidbey Island, San Antonio, or Wasp.
JS Kunisaki, LST-4003, with its two LCAC
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
True enough, but Even the US has taken a interest in the EDA-R, Although for a slightly different role The US Army has taken a intrest for use as a replacement of the old LCM-8 and not with out reasons the EDA-R has a larger payload then the LCAC or SSC 80 tons vs 60-73 tons ( I am not using over load ) as well as a longer range. LCAC has a listed operational range of 200 Nautical miles, ( no listed range for SSC but even if it doubled or trippleled the range...) EDA-R 1000 Nautical miles.
For the JGSDF who are more or less starting from scratch and are the Armed forces for a nation made up of islands One has to consider all options a larger payload and significantly longer range
Well, it does have a longer range...but I think the 1,000 miles is off. I believe it is more like 400 nmi. Also, they are definitely slower, and they definitely are not going to go inland over the beach like an LCAC does They are not air cushion, they are cats.
No doubt they are going to be a good vessel...but still, only a very few have been built to date and they are not a proven design over long periods of time. .
For the Mike Boat replacement, they may be a good option. We'll have to see. For Marine amphibious assault craft over the beach...they do lack a number of important things that the Marines are looking for.
I am not sure to what combat specs/level they are built...and I am not as familiar with their sea state handling either.
I still believe in the end, that both the US and the JMSDF will go with the Ship to Shore Connectors for their LPDs, LHDs, LSDs, etc.
No doubt they are going to be a good vessel...but still, only a very few have been built to date and they are not a proven design over long periods of time. .
For the Mike Boat replacement, they may be a good option. We'll have to see. For Marine amphibious assault craft over the beach...they do lack a number of important things that the Marines are looking for.
I am not sure to what combat specs/level they are built...and I am not as familiar with their sea state handling either.
I still believe in the end, that both the US and the JMSDF will go with the Ship to Shore Connectors for their LPDs, LHDs, LSDs, etc.
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Your right I was Off I had to double check my Source on the range. Navy reco Reads it as 600 nm the manufacturer gives a 435 NM loaded range. and lists a NATO sea State 5 or a wave hight of between 2.5 to 4 metres (8 ft 2 in to 13 ft 1 in),
navyreco
Senior Member
I was told the LCAT being offered to the US Army for Mike Boat replacement will be a bit different.
I was also told that one advantage of LCAT over LCAC is navigability in far worst sea states + the ability to "beach" on rocky beaches and/or beaches with steep angles. I was told LCAC need fairly wide beaches to be able to "turn around" and this is a limitation that landing force commanders have to take into account in planing their ops. In comparision, LCAT can "land" on something like 80% of the beaches worldwide (I don't remember the extact % but you get the idea).
But of course LCAT is much slower.
And Terran, yes, the LCAT was pitched to the JMSDF by both the French Navy and its designer.
I was also told that one advantage of LCAT over LCAC is navigability in far worst sea states + the ability to "beach" on rocky beaches and/or beaches with steep angles. I was told LCAC need fairly wide beaches to be able to "turn around" and this is a limitation that landing force commanders have to take into account in planing their ops. In comparision, LCAT can "land" on something like 80% of the beaches worldwide (I don't remember the extact % but you get the idea).
But of course LCAT is much slower.
And Terran, yes, the LCAT was pitched to the JMSDF by both the French Navy and its designer.
navyreco
Senior Member
Commander of French "Nuke" Air Forces got to fly in a B-2 !
Pretty rare as I am sure they don't just let anybody get inside one of those... Unless this was a commercial flight to "pitch" the B-2 to the French Air Force. I wish! But I am not sure where the money would be coming from!
Pretty rare as I am sure they don't just let anybody get inside one of those... Unless this was a commercial flight to "pitch" the B-2 to the French Air Force. I wish! But I am not sure where the money would be coming from!