France Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

not sure I understood it properly (google translation is below without like table from the bottom of that post), anyway was interesting to go through
Le Maintien en Condition Opérationnelle des plateformes et systèmes d'armes est l'un des facteurs de la supériorité militaire, en ce sens qu'il conditionne la disponibilité des matériels des forces pour les missions qui peuvent être ordonnées. Sur le plan naval, le MCO est la condition sine qua non pour durer à la mer, la matérialisation de la lutte permanente contre la moindre avarie, voire la survie d'un navire quand la casse est critique, même au bassin.

Le budget MCO connaissait un effondrement pendant les années allant de 1997 à 2001. Si bien que la DTO (Disponibilité Technique Opérationnelle) chutait, en moyenne, de 15 à 25% selon les systèmes d'armes. Ces mêmes taux regagnaient 10% grâce à une augmentation des crédits de MCO de près de 30% entre 2000 et 2003. La LPM (2003-2008) s'assignait l'objectif de 75 à 80% de disponibilité selon les équipements.

La Cour des comptes se penchait via deux rapports la situation du MCO des équipements militaires en 2004 et 2014. Il en ressortait un certain nombre de constats dont la progression constante en volume de ce budget sans que les objectifs en la matière (2008) ne soient atteints, ni même que les économies réalisées par la rationalisation du nombre d'implantations (relevant des services de soutien et d'entretien) et sur les postes supprimées dans cette fonction ne produisent le moindre effet financier.

C'est pourquoi la Cour des comptes formulait, notamment, deux recommandations : déployer une comptabilité analytique adaptée dont l'expertise serait fournie par le maintenancier de chaque milieu (SSF pour la Marine) qui en assurerait la synthèse et mieux intégrer le MCO dès la conception des équipements en renforçant le rôle des maintenanciers au-delà de ce qui est prévu dans l'instruction de conduite des programmes d'armement 1516.

En 2012, le budget de MCO représentait 6 milliards d'euros (contre 3,32 milliards d'euros en 2002) qui se répartissent comme suit :

53% (dont 15% pour la chasse) de la somme est dédiée aux matériels aéronautiques,
26% pour les matériels terrestres,
21% pour les plateformes navales.

Dans cette perspective, il est à noter que le MCO de la Marine nationale est - en 2017 - de près de 1,56 milliard d'euros. La refonte à mi-vie du porte-avions Charles de Gaulle représente une opération extra-ordinaire de 1,3 milliards d'euros qui court sur, au moins, deux années. Le volume financier dédié aux autres plateformes se répartit entre :

628 millions pour les navires de surface ;
326 millions pour les sous-marins.

Le tableau suivant (cf. infra) n'a aucune prétention à être exact et contient, très probablement, un trop grand nombre d'erreurs. Il ne s'agit là que de proposer quelques ordres de grandeur.
Il ressort de ce tableau que l'entretien est nettement plus lourd sur un sous-marin qu'un bâtiment de surface. Si bien que la disponibilité stratégique du bateau sous-marin est bien plus rigide que celle du bateau de surface. La propulsion nucléaire surface y tient une incidence certaine mais relative dans la mesure où le changement de combustible embarqué dans les cœurs permet d'espacer - depuis quelques années sur les Rubis - les rechargements de combustibles tous les dix ans.

Par ailleurs, il est aussi à relever que les gains sur les périodes pendant lequel le sous-marin est indisponible permet directement d'allonger la durée des missions pouvant être effectuées par chacun des deux équipages. A contrario, les gains engrangées pour les bâtiments de combat de surface profitent bien plus à la marge dans la mesure où ils ne bénéficient pas d'un deuxième équipage. Ils sont alors astreint au nombre de jours de mer moyen devant être effectué par chaque équipage qui est de 96 jours en 2017. En 2016, les dix équipages des cinq SNA 72 (Rubis) parvenaient à durer 1000 jours à la mer (soit 100 jours en moyenne par équipage). Sans deuxième équipage, les progrès réalisés sur les FREMM peuvent être difficilement exploités.

Mais cette disponibilité stratégique comporte, pour la flotte de surface, une réserve égale, au minimum, au nombre de jours de mer effectués. Cela permettrait une montée en puissance sur un théâtre d'opérations afin de compenser un nombre limité de frégates, par exemple. Sachant que l'exploitation de cette réserve est en prise directe avec les capacités de régénération et que la plateforme n'est pas sans limite. Cela amène à question quelles seraient les conséquences de l'emploi d'un deuxième équipage sur les FREMM vis-à-vis de l'usure des systèmes et équipements et qu'elle en serait l'incidence sur l'entretien programmé des matériels. La situation deviendrait-elle comparable à celle des SNA ? Ces derniers semblent exploités de manière optimale mais sans marge de manœuvre en cas de besoin ponctuel et franchement accru de présence sous-marine.
MCO : disponibilité stratégique des plateformes navales

vendredi 8 décembre 2017
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:

"Operational maintenance of weapons platforms and systems is one of the factors of military superiority, in that it conditions the availability of force materials for missions that can be ordered. On the naval plane, the MCO is the sine qua non to last at sea, the materialization of the permanent fight against the slightest damage, even the survival of a ship when the breakage is critical, even in the basin.

The MCO budget was in a collapse during the years from 1997 to 2001. As a result, the DTO (Technical Operational Availability) dropped, on average, by 15 to 25% depending on the weapon systems. These same rates regained 10% thanks to an increase of the MCO credits of nearly 30% between 2000 and 2003. The LPM (2003-2008) set itself the objective of 75 to 80% of availability according to the equipment.

The Court of Auditors, through two reports, examined the situation of the military equipment MCO in 2004 and 2014. A number of observations emerged from it, including the constant increase in the volume of this budget, without the objectives in this area (2008) being The savings achieved by rationalizing the number of locations (support and maintenance services) and the posts eliminated in this function have no financial impact.

This is why the Court of Auditors made, in particular, two recommendations: deploy an adapted cost accounting whose expertise would be provided by the maintenance of each environment (SSF for the Navy) which would ensure the synthesis and better integrate the MCO from the design of equipment by reinforcing the role of maintenance workers beyond what is provided for in the training instructions for the 1516 weapons programs.

In 2012, the budget of MCO amounted to 6 billion euros (against 3.32 billion euros in 2002), which breaks down as follows:

53% (including 15% for hunting) of the sum is dedicated to aeronautical equipment,
26% for terrestrial equipment,
21% for naval platforms.

In this perspective, it should be noted that the MCO of the Navy is - in 2017 - nearly 1.56 billion euros. The mid-life redesign of the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle represents an extraordinary operation of 1.3 billion euros that runs for at least two years. The financial volume dedicated to the other platforms is divided between:

$ 628 million for surface ships;
$ 326 million for submarines.

The following table (see below) has no claim to be exact and contains, most probably, too many errors. This is only to propose a few orders of magnitude.
This table shows that maintenance is significantly heavier on a submarine than a surface vessel. So that the strategic availability of the underwater boat is much more rigid than that of the surface boat. The nuclear propulsion surface has a certain but relative impact insofar as the fuel change embedded in the hearts makes it possible to space - in the last few years on the Rubis - the refuelings of fuels every ten years.

In addition, it should also be noted that the gains on the periods during which the submarine is unavailable directly allows to extend the duration of the missions that can be performed by each of the two crews. On the other hand, the gains made for surface combatants benefit much more from the margin in that they do not benefit from a second crew. They are then bound to the number of average sea days to be carried out by each crew which is 96 days in 2017. In 2016, the ten crews of the five ANS 72 (Rubis) managed to last 1000 days at sea (ie 100 days on average per crew). Without a second crew, the progress made on the FREMMs can hardly be exploited.

But this strategic availability includes, for the surface fleet, a reserve equal, at least, to the number of days of sea made. This would allow a surge in a theater of operations to compensate for a limited number of frigates, for example. Knowing that the exploitation of this reserve is in direct contact with the regeneration capacities and that the platform is not without limit. This raises the question of what would be the consequences of using a second crew on the FREMMs with regard to the wear of the systems and equipment and that this would affect the scheduled maintenance of the equipment. Would the situation be comparable to that of ANS? The latter seem to be exploited optimally but without any leeway in case of a punctual and frankly increased need for submarine presence."
 
now went through yet another operating-cost-related blog post:
Coûts d'un bâtiment de combat : projections sur 30 ans

vendredi 8 décembre 2017
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there's likely zero interest in this topic here LOL so just one paragraph:
Autre remarque, et ce n'est pas la moindre de toutes celles exprimées, il apparaît de manière éclatante un découplage presque total entre le MCO + équipage sur 30 ans et le tonnage d'une frégate. Il était déjà relativement évident dans la comparaison entre une FREMM et une FTI que le coût unitaire de production n'était différent que de seulement 50 millions d'euros pour 1000 à 1500 tonnes en moins pour la FTI. S'il y a peu de risques de se tromper en affirmant que les coûts de fonctionnement d'une FTI seront excessivement proches de ceux d'une FREMM il est, toutefois, plus étonnant de dégager que le coût MCO + équipage sur 30 ans d'une La Fayette n'est différent que d'environ 153 millions d'euros. Le tonnage est presque le double entre les classes La Fayette et Aquitaine tandis que la complexité des systèmes d'armes embarqués est sans commune mesure entre ces frégates de premier et deuxième rang.
"Another remark, and it is not the least of all those expressed, it appears in a striking manner a decoupling almost total between the MCO + crew over 30 years and the tonnage of a frigate. It was already quite obvious in the comparison between a FREMM and an FTI that the unit cost of production was only different from only 50 million euros for 1000 to 1500 tons less for the FTI. If there is little risk of being mistaken in saying that the operating costs of an FTI will be excessively close to those of a FREMM it is, however, more surprising to release that the cost of MCO + crew over 30 years. A Lafayette is only about 153 million euros apart. The tonnage is almost double between the La Fayette and Aquitaine classes, while the complexity of the onboard weapons systems is out of proportion between these first and second rank frigates."

and I would ask the blogger why, then, the French Navy still pours money into the La Fayettes Sep 11, 2017 instead of procuring more FREMMs
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Thursday, December 7, 2017 was the second Dark Dune session of the year 2017. Two MC-130J from the US Air Force came to Cazaux to allow the pilots of Caracal "Pyrenees" to validate their qualification for refueling in flight , Day and night. And also allow the Air Force to offer us some exceptional images!

The US Air Force was back once again in Cazaux this week for a new "Dark Dune" exercise dedicated to refueling helicopters.
This second edition of 2017 follows that of May, which took place on the American Base Midenhall in England. It was held Thursday, December 7 from 120 Cazaux Air Base, on the Arcachon Basin.

Dark Dune allows the pilots of the EH 01.067 "Pyrenees" to validate their qualification for refueling in flight, day and night.

As usual, two American MC-130-Js were used to complete the exercise. The Air Force aligned the (pretty) number of three H225M "Caracal". As a reminder, the Caracal is currently the only French helicopter refueling in flight, making it the preferred instrument for special operations.

Regarding the French refueling planes, and until the A400M can one day achieve this mission safely *, France has ordered four new C-130J, the first of which has just been stolen and will soon be received by the Air Force. This order of 4 aircraft, passed in 2016, includes two KC-130J able to refuel our helicopters in flight. Both devices are expected in 2019.


* The A400M returning to the Air Force in recent weeks have a tactical standard that will allow in-flight refueling of other fixed-wing aircraft. Tests will be carried out in France at the end of 2018. In Spain, the A400M has already carried out flight refueling tests on F-18 fighters.
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EC-725.jpg
EC-725 - 3.jpg
 

schenkus

Junior Member
Registered Member
now went through yet another operating-cost-related blog post:
Coûts d'un bâtiment de combat : projections sur 30 ans

vendredi 8 décembre 2017
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and I would ask the blogger why, then, the French Navy still pours money into the La Fayettes Sep 11, 2017 instead of procuring more FREMMs

I'm not sure that the crew numbers used in the blog provide a really fair comparison.
If I understand it correctly, he took the following numbers from the news article:
old F70 (was replaced by the FREMM): crew of 212, cost 13million
FREMM: higher qualified crew of 94 (123 - "reach back" 30), cost 8million

To get the cost of the La Fayettes, he took a crew number of 153 and applied the costs per head of the F70.

To me it seems like the crew number for the FREMM is a very low number that doesn't include the aviation crew, but the number for the La Fayettes seems to include everything.
 
I'm not sure that the crew numbers used in the blog provide a really fair comparison.
If I understand it correctly, he took the following numbers from the news article:
old F70 (was replaced by the FREMM): crew of 212, cost 13million
FREMM: higher qualified crew of 94 (123 - "reach back" 30), cost 8million

To get the cost of the La Fayettes, he took a crew number of 153 and applied the costs per head of the F70.

To me it seems like the crew number for the FREMM is a very low number that doesn't include the aviation crew, but the number for the La Fayettes seems to include everything.
you were astute, I just briefly checked
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Complement:
  • France: 145
and thought something got lost in translation LOL
just kidding, of course the blogger's crew of 94 is fishy

anyway am still wondering
... why, then, the French Navy still pours money into the La Fayettes Sep 11, 2017 instead of procuring more FREMMs
I mean is the French Navy broke?
 

B.I.B.

Captain
At Sea Aboard Chevalier Paul - French Navy Horizon-class Air Defense Destroyer


My apologies if this interesting video has been previously posted.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
At Sea Aboard Chevalier Paul - French Navy Horizon-class Air Defense Destroyer


My apologies if this interesting video has been previously posted.

Oh no , after checking back for an hour I found,Forbin has already posted it on Jan 6th and its too late to delete my post. As a consolation I read some interesting things on the French military which I missed during the year.
 
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