FFG 054/054A Thread

[crobato]

The 052B and 052C has large openings on one side of the ship, but the openings are only in that side, and there are no openings on the other side or on the back that is big enough. The side openings are big enough for the kind of TAS the 052 carries and I cannot think of them being used on anything else. You have to have the right photograph with the right view point to see the openings. Luckily sinodefence.com has them.

If China has conformal VDS that would be interesting.

I find it interesting that the 054A, 054, and 051Cs are the last surface ships PLAN has launched with no visible TAS. Cannot rule out that an new underwater TAS may have superceded the known design like the one used on the 052.

 

[tphuang]

The 052B and 052C has large openings on one side of the ship, but the openings are only in that side, and there are no openings on the other side or on the back that is big enough. The side openings are big enough for the kind of TAS the 052 carries and I cannot think of them being used on anything else. You have to have the right photograph with the right view point to see the openings. Luckily sinodefence.com has them.

If China has conformal VDS that would be interesting.

I find it interesting that the 054A, 054, and 051Cs are the last surface ships PLAN has launched with no visible TAS. Cannot rule out that an new underwater TAS may have superceded the known design like the one used on the 052.

i hope PLAN is that advanced, but kind of doubt it. Anyhow, here is why I'm skeptical, this is the back of Type 23.

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seeing this one, I don't see the holes on 052B/C as big enough (unless they are use a miniaturized version).

 

[crobato]

The pictures won't load.

This is the DUBV-43 on the Type 052. Its actually narrow and should be able to come out from something rectangular.

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This one is showing the rear rectangular outlet for the 052C.

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This one shows you the rear rectangular outlet for the 052B.

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[crobato]

While doing some research, I came upon this by James Bussert.

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"Except for the Luda-class destroyer, Chinese antisubmarine warfare (ASW) ships from the mid-1950s to the mid-1980s had port and starboard bow anchors. Experts estimated that Chinese sonars were Soviet high frequency (HF) searchlight technology, with keel-mounted hoist-lower domes. After 1990, French DUBV-23 low frequency (LF) bow sonar domes and bow stem anchors are known Chinese sonar designs. The Jianghu series of 35 frigates built from 1975 until 1986 bridge the critical transition period, and naval experts differ on estimated sonar types and locations. Correlating visible anchor and bow configurations to sonar technology may provide a possible answer to this riddle.

The first 14 Jianghu frigates built at Jiangnan shipyard had port/starboard anchor locations, which would indicate keel-mounted HF searchlight sonars. The following 11 Jianghus built at Pudong shipyard after 1983 had an anchor in the sharper raked bow stem and another further aft on the port bow, which indicates a bow sonar dome. These observations are the basis for a strong argument that China had an HF or medium frequency indigenous scanning sonar in 1983 that impelled the redesigned bow on Jianghu and Jiangwei frigates.

However, some anomalies to this point of view exist. For example, the 15 Luda destroyers all had a raked bow stem anchor since 1971. China almost certainly had only copies of Soviet keel searchlight sonars during that period. Other Chinese non-ASW large ships with sharply raked bows have traditional port/starboard anchor arrangements. A Luda was observed in dry dock with a large bow dome in 1987, three years prior to China receiving the first French LF sonar. China has been producing DUBV-23 bow sonars under licensed production rights for 12 years. More than half of the Ludas, not just the single Luda III, could have LF bow sonars."

 

[nemo]

True but something else can pick up the targets for the subs. And yes the Songs did practice their AshMs with Y-8s finding targets for them.

I am not that convinced sub launched missile would be useful alone. The reason is shipboard defense has improved to such a degree that without EW support and saturation, the chance of getting a hit from a missile is rather low. Hence torpedo combat is still useful. If combat is in torpedo range, then sonar remains useful.

 

[crobato]

I am not fully convinced either when the feces hit the fan that you can fully intercept every antiship missile coming to you. Every missile seems to do wonderful when it comes to static tests, controlled and scripted exercises where parameters can be adjusted and fixed. Many measures can be employed on AshMs to make them harder to intercept, like using waypoints to set up a multivector attack, RCS reduction measures, improvements on the way they can detect enemy radar and respond by evasion. Its possible for a missile to know its being locked on by another missile and respond at electronic speeds.

Torpedoes too can be stopped through decoys and rocket mortar barrages. those multiple rocket launchers that you see in many ships double both as ASW and anti torpedo screens.

Like you said, saturation attack. You don't expects subs to act in singles and shoot their AshMs. They would be vectored in to surge as a group, like a wolf pack, then launch their AshMs in a massive wave, preferably in combination with air and surface sea assets.

 

[crobato]

Its getting hard to tell if these are new or the ones before.

 

[Jeff Head]

Its getting hard to tell if these are new or the ones before.

Interesting...you think that might be number five? I wonder if anything is going on at the other yard?

We'll have to keep an eye on this and then see, if in fact that is number five, if there are any modifications.

 

[Riverman]

Dont know if any of this pic have been posted here before. But it does show a god view of the ship.

 

[tphuang]

Its getting hard to tell if these are new or the ones before.

I believe these are older pictures from HP shipyard. Actually, it's kind of hard to tell whether or not they are new ones. The only validity is the original poster and in this case, the guy lacks credibility.