Falklands War, 1982, Thread

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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Why? Because the US had them in stock. That's why. The US filled the strategic reserves for the cold war with there systems. The UK went into the fight without the inventory for a war. The US let the British borrow out of the strategic reserves, those reserves had the newer sidewinder.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Mirage Chile is not your enemy, Chile is only a result of an oligarchy that was fighting your oligarchy even had a same origin.


Similar to feudal Europe after the fall of the roman empire, Spain's vice royalties divided in small kingdoms.
Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay should be one country, it was like that in the colonial times, Chile is not enemy of Argentina, but greed and external forces and sheer lack of geopolitical understanding has kept Argentina and Chile separated. but a united south America is the first step for your freedom, just look at Mexico now, Trump has brought back our history of 1848 between Mexico and the US, if you do not see, we are the Spanish world you will never understand our present, history has the roots of our current conflicts
I will agree with some aspects and that we are all an ex colony of Spain. However, Chile is still more of an enemy and a threat to national soverenty than the British. Btitain will not invade the Argentine mainland, but Chile will.
 

b787

Captain
I will agree with some aspects and that we are all an ex colony of Spain. However, Chile is still more of an enemy and a threat to national soverenty than the British. Btitain will not invade the Argentine mainland, but Chile will.

Mirage

Is there a possibility of war among ex-spanish colonies?

The answer is yes

Did England consider nuking Argentina?


The Falklands War that lasted from April to June 1982 was reportedly close to an English nuclear attack on Argentine territory, indicating the city of Cordoba, the center of the Argentine military industry, as the target selected by London to destroy. British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher reportedly threatened to launch a nuclear strike with a Polaris A-3 ballistic missile launched from a Royal Navy submarine of nuclear-propulsion and ballistic missiles of the Resolution class, which was said to have been operating By the Island of Ascension awaiting the launching order. Each Polaris A-3 missile carried a nuclear warhead of 800 kilotons, compared to the atomic bomb that destroyed Hiroshima in 1945 of about 20 kilotons. One kiloton equals 1,000 tons of TNT.

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The United Kingdom admits that it carried nuclear weapons during the Falklands War
The United Kingdom has for the first time admitted publicly that some of its warships carried nuclear weapons during the 1982 Falklands Islands conflict, but that it was never their intention to use them in combat. The Defense Ministry has confirmed this information after revealing in Buenos Aires a report that London provided to the Argentine Government on the existence of these weapons in containers stored in some British ships.


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ask your self which nation is more dangerous one that can attack you with nuclear weapons or one that can attack with conventional weapons?

Chile does not have the military to conquest Argentina, in 1982 what worried Argentina was to have a two front war, true, but Chile has not the weapons that England has, and Chile has basically the same ethic groups that you have, same religion and same language and does not have weapons of mass destruction.
Margaret Thatcher forced François Mitterrand to give her the codes to disable Argentina's deadly French-made missiles during the Falklands war by threatening to launch a nuclear warhead against Buenos Aires, according to a book.

Rendez-vous - the psychoanalysis of François Mitterrand, by Ali Magoudi, who met the late French president up to twice a week in secrecy at his Paris practice from 1982 to 1984, also reveals that Mr Mitterrand believed he would get his "revenge" by building a tunnel under the Channel which would forever destroy Britain's island status.

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Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
"The United Kingdom admits that it carried nuclear weapons during the Falklands War
The United Kingdom has for the first time admitted publicly that some of its warships carried nuclear weapons during the 1982 Falklands Islands conflict, but that it was never their intention to use them in combat. The Defence Ministry has confirmed this information after revealing in Buenos Aires a report that London provided to the Argentine Government on the existence of these weapons in containers stored in some British ships."

Yes a number of ships sailed for the South Atlantic with Nuclear Weapons aboard. Nuclear Depth Charges for Anti Submarine use, carried as standard equipment for frontline NATO Warships at the time. Once London realised the ships had these in their magazines (and by 'London' I mean the Thatcher Government, not the MOD or Navy Command) the order was given for all such weapons to be offloaded when they reached Ascension Island. This was done and the weapons were returned to the UK aboard an RFA to avoid drawing attention. It was appreciated from the start that ships could be lost in combat, and losing them with Nukes aboard would risk environmental contamination. To date the UK hasn't 'lost' any Nuclear weapons, something that puts us ahead of both the USA and USSR...

We would never have used Nuclear Weapons against a non nuclear country, We would have lost the 'moral high ground' at the UN and in the eyes of all our allies. It would have been completely counter productive and not aided the war effort in any way. However, allowing the Argentines to BELIEVE there was a threat to the mainland from Vulcan Bombers operating from Ascension Island was very productive, as the Argentine Air Force withdrew their best air defence assets, the Mirage IIIs from the battle in order to defend against what was a 'phantom' threat to their cities and air bases. You talk a lot about the history of British warfare, perhaps you should read up on the details. We have a long and proud history of deceiving the enemy in battle to divert their resources to where we Aren't and they can do little to stop us. Battle of the River Plate: We made the Germans think we had an Aircraft Carrier battle group including a Battlecruiser waiting off the mouth of the estuary for the Graf Spee (they were two weeks sailing away) instead of just two light cruisers. The German Captain elected to scuttle his ship rather than face them. Job Done!
In Eqypt we managed to 'move' Alexandria Harbour several miles into the desert so that German bombers dropped their bombs harmlessly on sand instead of ships. We made the Suez canal invisible too. Read up on Jasper Maskelyne for further details. Also when we were about to invade Sicily we tricked the Germans into thinking we were about to invade Yugoslavia and Sardinia instead and they redeployed their forces accordingly, weakening the defending garrison.

We had no mandate to attack the Argentine mainland, and did not do so. Allowing an enemy to think all sorts of things is fair game in war, if it serves your own military goals.

I understand the concept of 'all-aspect' very well when it comes to missile seeker heads. The fact remains this capability WAS NEVER USED in combat in 1982. The first time the Sea Harrier pilots used a '9L was on the voyage south. All their training was with '9Gs prior to that, which means they were trained to stern chase a target, and that's what they did. The main advantage of having '9Ls at the time was their much higher reliability rates, meaning fewer misfires, malfunctions, and a much higher kill probability for each shot. Training in the use of the 'all aspect' capability didn't begin for the Sea harrier force until 1983, along with the addition of dual rail launchers to the fleet doubling the number of sidewinders that could be carried on each aircraft:p0001919.jpg This was another modification ordered during the war but they weren't ready in time.

Do you understand missile evasion tactics? I suspect not. Missiles travel very fast, usually up to mach 3. Most fighters can only manage mach 2, the Sea Harrier could only do mach 0.9. Seems a slam -dunk doesn't it? The thing is... at mach 3 a missile cannot turn as tightly as a slower aircraft. The same principle is why in a car you have to slow down to turn a corner. If you see a missile launched at you, your best bet is to break hard and try to out turn it, whilst dropping chaff and flares to decoy the missile away from you. If you don't see the missile coming you are dead. A mach 3 missile's best chance is to get to you before you see it and take the aforementioned countermeasures. It's speed helps it close the distance as quickly as possible before you realise you are under attack.

Engaging afterburners doesn't help against heat seeking missiles as it just makes you a more appealing target. Mirages and Daggers in 1982 were at the limit of their range and their pilots knew that if they used their superior speed via the afterburners, they would not have enough fuel to return home. So any speed advantage over the Sea Harriers was negated by geography, making the playing field a bit more level.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Mirage

Is there a possibility of war among ex-spanish colonies?

The answer is yes

Did England consider nuking Argentina?





ask your self which nation is more dangerous one that can attack you with nuclear weapons or one that can attack with conventional weapons?

Chile does not have the military to conquest Argentina, in 1982 what worried Argentina was to have a two front war, true, but Chile has not the weapons that England has, and Chile has basically the same ethic groups that you have, same religion and same language and does not have weapons of mass destruction.
I would be more concerned of the Chileans with Nukes than the British, for the following:

1) the British are not impulsive and have to be concerned about world opinion.
2) The British were just intent on retaking the islands. Because they believe it to be theirs and to have a jumping off point for Antarctic claims. The British have no territorial ambitions on the mainland of South America.
3) The British are a civilized lot and they know that it would be detrimental to their interests in Latin America to utilize nuclear weapons.

I cannot say the same for the Chileans and their expansionist militant mentality.
As I mentioned previously, Argentina needs to move on and kiss and make up with the British. this will be an economic boom for the nation and will bring in stability to encourage more investments.
 

b787

Captain
"The United Kingdom admits that it carried nuclear weapons during the Falklands War
The United Kingdom has for the first time admitted publicly that some of its warships carried nuclear weapons during the 1982 Falklands Islands conflict, but that it was never their intention to use them in combat. The Defence Ministry has confirmed this information after revealing in Buenos Aires a report that London provided to the Argentine Government on the existence of these weapons in containers stored in some British ships."



Do you understand missile evasion tactics? I suspect not. Missiles travel very fast, usually up to mach 3. Most fighters can only manage mach 2, the Sea Harrier could only do mach 0.9. Seems a slam -dunk doesn't it? The thing is... at mach 3 a missile cannot turn as tightly as a slower aircraft. The same principle is why in a car you have to slow down to turn a corner. If you see a missile launched at you, your best bet is to break hard and try to out turn it, whilst dropping chaff and flares to decoy the missile away from you. If you don't see the missile coming you are dead. A mach 3 missile's best chance is to get to you before you see it and take the aforementioned countermeasures. It's speed helps it close the distance as quickly as possible before you realise you are under attack.

Engaging afterburners doesn't help against heat seeking missiles as it just makes you a more appealing target. Mirages and Daggers in 1982 were at the limit of their range and their pilots knew that if they used their superior speed via the afterburners, they would not have enough fuel to return home. So any speed advantage over the Sea Harriers was negated by geography, making the playing field a bit more level.
Your argumentation is so weak that a child can prove you are trying to mislead only your self



Questions?

Why did they carry weapons to the Falklands? Answer for a vacations in south america because they were bored, i am being humorous:D


answer 1 and 2 two they wanted to lose them in a sunken ship to pollute the south Atlantic?
if the answer is one Thatcher wanted to use them as pollution weapons;)

They could reach from the Falklands Moscow in the case the soviets started WWIII?

:rolleyes:
this is not even worth answering since if you know the SLBM range, no SLBM range could reach the Soviet Union or China from the Falklands, Harriers have no range to hit anything beyond 300 miles

Your submarines were not armed with SLBMs then why you carried such weapons?
The answer is simple in 1982 you had a crazy prime minister with evil intentions.;)


I am not anti-British, i had even a girlfriend from Manchester when i was young, i have good British friends and i find British people really nice people, but you are going into my nation first right or wrong the woman (Margaret Thatcher) was a lunatic admit it.


You explanation about AIM-9L does not hold water, you do not carry them in Harriers if you do not know how to use them and you do not intend to use them..

see i am seeing the Falkland war as a historian as Mirage said i hope it has a political settling and both sides are satisfied, but your position is simply hiding to your self the truth
 
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b787

Captain
I would be more concerned of the Chileans with Nukes than the British, for the following:
.
My friend you are first wrong

Chile in 1982 had no ability to make nukes, Chile has the same blood you have Spaniards, Europeans and Mapuches and other native americans.

In 1982, Argentina was much closer to build a nuke than Chile, in fact Argentina and Brazil are the nations that can built them in South America, and third Chile will be badly affected environmentally if a nuke is used in South America specially in Patagonia or Argentina.

So your argument is not realistic, Chile is the most developed economically Speaking nation in South Americe in GDP PPP, in 1982 was aligned with England so if you say tht then Pinochet and Thatcher were friends.


Today there is consensus in South America you have to unite, and Chile knows that, you and them are brothers, and the other latin nations will not allow Chile to have enmity to Argentina.

As a person with some family links to both nations i found it senseless your argument
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Your argumentation is so weak that a child can prove you are trying to mislead only your self
Well you clearly have a mental age in single figures and you have singularly failed to prove me wrong on any point!



Questions?

Why did they carry weapons to the Falklands? Answer for a vacations in south america because they were bored, i am being humorous:D
The ships of the Task Force didn't carry nuclear weapons to the Falklands. Those weapons held in the magazines of some of the ships in the Task Force, which were nuclear depth charges to be dropped by helicopter or fired by the Ikara ASW Missile were offloaded at Ascension Island and returned to the UK. No nuclear weapons went any further south.


answer 1 and 2 two they wanted to lose them in a sunken ship to pollute the south Atlantic?
if the answer is one Thatcher wanted to use them as pollution weapons;)
Look at the worldwide condemnation the USSR received for the Chernobyl disaster only a few years later.

They could reach from the Falklands Moscow in the case the soviets started WWIII?

:rolleyes:
this is not even worth answering since if you know the SLBM range, no SLBM range could reach the Soviet Union or China from the Falklands, Harriers have no range to hit anything beyond 300 miles

Your submarines were not armed with SLBMs then why you carried such weapons?
The answer is simple in 1982 you had a crazy prime minister with evil intentions.;)

I did not mention, infer or in any way refer to Submarine Launched Ballistic Missiles. I was talking about Nuclear depth charges, as clarified above.

In 1982 the UK had the Polaris SLBM system, carried aboard four Resolution class SSBNs, of which one was permanently on patrol somewhere in the North Atlantic, from where Moscow was always in range. None of these vessels sailed south and none were in any way involved in the Falklands war. They are operated separately from the rest of the fleet as they have one function,- deterrence against nuclear attack on the UK itself.

The Subs we did send south were not, and could not be, armed with ballistic nuclear missiles. At the time none were fitted to carry cruise missiles, either conventional or nuclear tipped.
All British Nuclear weapons other than the warheads for the Trident SLBMs were withdrawn from use in the 1990s.



I am not anti-British, i had even a girlfriend from Manchester when i was young, i have good British friends and i find British people really nice people, but you are going into my nation first right or wrong the woman (Margaret Thatcher) was a lunatic admit it.

Margaret Thatcher was many things. A snob, heartless, lacking in empathy, arrogant, Deeply divisive even amongst her own party let alone the country. Two years after the war she fought the year long miner's strike against the then-powerful National Union of Mineworkers (NUM). I was 14 at the time and grew up in a mining area. Many of my relatives were miners. Most of my school friends were from mining families. Ever seen the film 'Billy Elliot'? it's set and filmed in the North east village of Easington. I grew up in the town next door, Peterlee, itself named for a miner's leader. If Maggie Thatcher ever showed her face in that area and many others she would have been lynched publically for many years afterwards. I have no love for 'That Woman', as my Grandmother would only refer to her.
However, if you class her as a lunatic you absolve her of all responsibility for her actions. You are letting her off the hook. Lunatics are not criminally responsible in law for their actions, and the Task Force wasn't even her idea. Her party had been in power three years by 82 and they had spent much of that time decimating the UK armed forces in the interest of cutting taxes for their rich pals. Two thirds of the ships sent south were under 'sentence of death' from Thatcher's Tory party. She was presented with the cold hard political reality that once British territory had been invaded, she either fought back or resigned from government.



You explanation about AIM-9L does not hold water, you do not carry them in Harriers if you do not know how to use them and you do not intend to use them..
I already stated several times the Sea Harrier pilots had been trained for many years to use the AIM-9G Sidewinder, first on the Phantom FG1 and then on the Sea Harrier FRS1, The engagement envelope of that missile means attacking the enemy aircraft from astern. The first time any of those pilots used an AIM-9L was on the voyage south, and although they were aware of it's capabilities, there was no time to practice new tactics when the ones they had been using for years were deemed more than adequate, and in fact turned out to be so. When attacking from behind your target cannot fire on you because their missiles aren't all-aspect. So a good fighter pilot will seek to take best advantage of any encounter and deny any advantage to their opponent. You get behind him and don't let him get behind you. In combat you rely on your training, and the RN and RAF had some of the best trained pilots in the world.
The Mirages were generally armed with French Matra Magic missiles, roughly equivalent to AIM-9B Sidewinders, which again could only engage from astern and their lock on a target could be broken by hard manoeuvres


see i am seeing the Falkland war as a historian as Mirage said i hope it has a political settling and both sides are satisfied, but your position is simply hiding to your self the truth
Pot. Kettle. Black.
 

b787

Captain
The ships of the Task Force didn't carry nuclear weapons to the Falklands. Those weapons held in the magazines of some of the ships in the Task Force, which were nuclear depth charges to be dropped by helicopter or fired by the Ikara ASW Missile were offloaded at Ascension Island and returned to the UK. No nuclear weapons went any further south.
what good you were, you had no way to hit Argentina! yes, what about this fact?

A Polaris Submarine

‘It was at that time that the decision was taken apparently to deploy a Polaris submarine within range of Argentina…It would have been in fact 3,000 miles north of the Falkland Islands’ (p105) but this would still have been well within its range – the target would have been the Argentine military complex at Cordoba (AR p.104).

Five British nuclear-powered hunter-killer submarines were deployed in the Falklands war, Paul Rogers explained: ‘five of those submarines were deployed in the Falklands area to act as forward protection to the Task Force ships, forming a barrier between the Argentine coast and the area of Task force operations.’ However, two of these had to guard the Polaris boat in the mid-Atlantic – thus, ‘for the key period of the war right up until just before the landings at San Carlos there were only three of these submarines protecting the entire task force.’ The Conqueror, which sunk the Belgrano, was one of these. But this small number was not enough, especially when one of these the HMS Splendid developed mechanical trouble. Thus, Paul Rogers explained, the job of protection could not be performed adequately by these three submarines, ‘and the Polaris submarine had precedence as far as we can tell.’

The situation was far from clear he explained, adding ‘it may be that one reasons log books have had a tendency to disappear is that they would tell us a lot more about this sequence of events.’

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i guess those evil Frenchies always spreading lies about the good not imperialist British


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French President Francois Mitterrand made a stunning claim to his psychoanalyst during Britain’s Falkland Islands war with Argentina in the early 1980s:

Margaret Thatcher threatened to use nuclear weapons unless Mitterrand gave the British the "deactivate" codes used by anti-ship missiles that France had sold to Argentina!

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Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Making threats is one thing. Actually launching the missiles? Would never have happened.

The recollections of an ex French president under Psychiatric care are hardly convincing As previously stated, we have a long history of letting an enemy think we are doing something when nothing of the sort was ever truly considered. It's a very successful tactic that has served us well for centuries. The outcry if we had actually launched a nuclear attack on a non nuclear country? We would have been finished as a nation. Trade embargoes and sanctions from the UN for starters. All the support we received from NATO and European allies would have evaporated instantly. There would be no advantage gained by such an attack and huge cost to us. No sane person would have authorised such an attack and as I said, although PM Thatcher was many things, she wasn't mad. The Resolution class SSBN didn't go south. Any claims to the contrary are just supposition and intentional disinformation.
 
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