Falklands War, 1982, Thread

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b787

Captain
I don't have to prove anything on this matter in a court of law,, it has already been decided. The United Nations declared Britain had the right to remove illegal occupation forces on and around the islands.
why do not you admit you can not prove your point, and you can not, i know you can not because

Special Committee on Decolonization Approves Resolution Reiterating Need for Negotiations to Resolve Falkland Islands (Malvinas) Question
The Special Committee on decolonization today approved a resolution calling for the peaceful settlement of the “Question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)
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”, as delegates urged an end to the “festering” dispute that had long plagued the South Atlantic islands and surrounding territories.

By the text, the Special Committee — known formally as the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples — reiterated that the way to put an end to the “special and particular colonial situation” of the Falkland Island (Malvinas) was the “peaceful and negotiated settlement of the dispute over sovereignty” between Argentina and the United Kingdom.

In that vein, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Worship of Argentina said that the longstanding dispute dated back to the United Kingdom’s 1833 occupation of the Malvinas, when that country had illegally evicted the legitimate Argentine authorities and people residing there, preventing their return and implanting British subjects. For that reason, the right to self-determination could not be invoked. “It is hard to imagine a clearer picture of an attempt to misrepresent a political and legal principle of such significance,” he said in that regard.

British unilateral acts continued to increase, forcing Argentina to take legal action to stop the “irresponsible” British campaign of exploiting the resources of the territories and maritime areas under dispute, he said. Many nations, including the 132 countries of the “Group of 77” developing countries and China, had recognized Argentina’s right to take such actions, he stressed.

The Special Committee heard from a number of petitioners on the issue, including Picardo Patterson, a fourth-generation resident of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas), who said the Argentine Government and people had, over the years, maintained a tradition of respect for the lifestyle, culture and values of all inhabitants. The unilateral and illegal actions of the United Kingdom in areas such as fishing and hydrocarbons had made it impossible to continue with the provisional bilateral understanding under the umbrella of sovereignty.


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Obviously United Nations do not support your claims
Coventry sinking
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Harrier shot down in 1982 over the Falklands/Malvinas
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Harrier wreckage shot down in the Falklands/Malvinas
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Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
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A lot of small nations with an axe to grind get to sit on UN committees and spout off with their mates. Nothing will happen as a result. There are credible legal avenues Argentina or it's citizens could use if they had a bona fide case of war crimes committed by Britain, like the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Please present your evidence there. We are signed up to the court and have to abide by it's conclusions.

If the United Nations supported Argentina's claims to the islands then resolution 503 would never have happened. Decolonisation cuts both ways. If it is wrong for Britain to maintain the 'colony' on the island it would equally be wrong for Argentina to colonise the islands. If the Islands ever do cut their ties with the UK, it will be to become Independent. Not Argentinian. But that's all supposition, it's not going to happen in our lifetimes.

Curious that would you post pictures of Coventry sinking and a shot down Harrier, these are events not disputed by either side. We didn't cry foul about the loss of Sheffield, Coventry, Ardent, Antelope or Atlantic Conveyor. They happened, no arguments. I posted pictures from the Argentine media which were not only demonstrably faked, they were laughably so. Yet you wish us to regard those sources as credible and reliable? I do not cite UK Newspapers in the same way, like any nation's newsprint media, they are owned by private interests with an agenda.
 

b787

Captain
A lot of small nations with an axe to grind get to sit on UN committees and spout off with their mates. Nothing will happen as a result. There are credible legal avenues Argentina or it's citizens could use if they had a bona fide case of war crimes committed by Britain, like the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Please present your evidence there. We are signed up to the court and have to abide by it's conclusions.
Seeking justice for Argentine war victims in Malvinas Two lawyers will file a lawsuit before the European Court of Human Rights on behalf of relatives of the Argentine victims who perished in the sinking of the General Belgrano cruise, where 323 sailors and officers were killed. April 16, 2013 | 15:03 | Reuters Veterans and relatives of Argentine victims in the Malvinas war will seek justice in a war crimes case that will be presented this week against Britain for the 1982 sinking of the General Belgrano cruiser. In the attack against the cruise of the Argentine Navy 323 sailors and officers died. Two lawyers from Buenos Aires traveled to Strasbourg, France, to file a complaint with the European Court of Human Rights on behalf of the families of the victims, arguing that the ship, a pride of the Argentine fleet, was sunk outside the area. Exclusion of 320 kilometers during the 10-week war in which about 1,000 people died. "I believe in the justice of God, dear, but many more believe in the justice of man ... First, the justice of God, because of those 323 boys who died, someone had to face," said Luisa Romero Of Ibáñez, whose son Luis Alberto, 20, died in the sinking of the Belgrano. The cruiser, survivor of the Japanese attack on the American fleet at Pearl Harbor, was sunk by three torpedoes on 2 May 1982 after being followed for 36 hours by the British nuclear submarine HMS Conqueror. The deaths in the attack on the ship accounted for almost half of the Argentine casualties in the war for the sovereignty of the Falklands, called Falklands by the British. The new legal offensive maintains that General Belgrano was sunk to undermine the peace negotiations mediated by the then President of Peru Fernando Belaúnde Terry. "In reality, the war began with the sinking of the Belgrano and all possibility of an agreement was exhausted," said the president of the Federation of Veterans of War of Argentina, Hector Miguel Beiroa. So far, "the peace negotiations were far advanced and the collapse stole the whole possibility" of reaching an agreement, he added. In addition to having been sunk outside the exclusion zone, the cruise was attacked without a formal declaration of war, in contravention of the 1907 Hague Convention, according to the opinion of Jorge Humberto Appiani and Jorge Antonio Olivera. "First, the General Belgrano cruise did not pose any danger to British forces. The nature of the decision was political rather than military," Beiroa said. The initial case is based on accusations filed by Romero de Ibáñez and Roberto Guillermo Rojas, who lost his son Ruben Horacio in the attack. "On the basis of what the advisory commission of the European Court of Human Rights says, they are going to file in the same lawsuit the extension of the demand for all the other victims," said Javier Olivera, son of the lawyer who manages the case. "For my son, I am representing him as a mother, right? But at the same time for the 323 deaths of (General) Belgrano," said Romero de Ibáñez. Former Argentine President Carlos Menem said in 1994 that former British Prime Minister Margaret should be extradited if it was determined that the sinking of General Belgrano had been a war crime. Shortly after Menem's statements, the Argentine Ministry of Defense issued a report describing the destruction of the ship as "a legal act of war," a point of view shared by General Belgrano's captain Héctor Bonzo. Eight years after the end of the conflict, the two countries have substantially improved their diplomatic relations, but Argentina still maintains its claim on the sovereignty of the Malvinas Islands, which has been fighting since 1833.

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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
TerraN_EmpirE
I have find more accurate numbers for Grounds troops on the Web... almost exact

UK
3th RM Cdo Bde reinforced : about 7000 troops
5th Inf Bde : 3500 - 3900

Argentina
About 10 Inf Bat with other artillery etc... and some AF personnal 14000 troops

Argentinians a little more numerous but much conscripts 75 % and the 5 Inf Bat RM/Paras in the 3th RM Cdo Bde were excellent.

Few combat vehicles as you have mentionned but a certain amount of guns especialy 105 mm to see after.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Obi Wan Russell can you confirm Harrier GR.3 ( seems have laser designator system ) or i don' t think Sea Harrier use LGBs ?

Keeping to the east of the Falklands to reduce the chance of air attack and screened by their anti-submarine Sea King's (picture below), "Invincible" flew off Sea Harriers for combat air patrols as "Hermes" aircraft followed up the Vulcan raid with ground strikes. Soon after 8.00 am, nine of them hit Stanley airfield, destroying installations and stores and damaging a civilian Islander aircraft with CBU's. The other three went in at Goose Green, wrecking one Pucara [a2] and badly damaging two more [a3,a4]
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b787

Captain
Photo of gunship bomber fighter-bomber Mirage 5/IAI Dagger, of the Argentine Air Force, during the air attack to British Frigate in Bahía San Carlos, Islas Malvinas.
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Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
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Obi Wan Russell can you confirm Harrier GR.3 ( seems have laser designator system ) or i don' t think Sea Harrier use LGBs ?



British Military aircraft change their mark number usually as a result of engine upgrades, which was certainly the case when the GR mk1 became the GR mk3. The engine was upgraded from the RR Pegasus mk101 (GR1) or mk102 (GR1a) to the mk103. At the same time (mid to late 70s) the Laser Rangefinder and Marked Target Seeker (LRMTS) was fitted in the nose, giving the aircraft it's characteristic pointy nose:cas047.jpg cas067.jpg 95136260472bb647dfba367997f41d8c5ec20430.jpg As you can see LGBs were deployed in the campaign, but only near the very end. The very last GR3 sortie of the war was an LGB bombing mission on Stanley itself, in order to attack specific buildings occupied by Argentine occupation forces, but it was aborted when reports of 'White Flags flying over Stanley' were received from the front line.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
"Shortly after Menem's statements, the Argentine Ministry of Defense issued a report describing the destruction of the ship as "a legal act of war," a point of view shared by General Belgrano's captain Héctor Bonzo."

Thank you for confirming these facts. Good luck with the court case, unfortunately courts deal in facts and evidence, not emotion or sentiment. People bring court cases all the time that have no chance of success and go nowhere, as I predict this one will.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Obi Wan Russell can you confirm Harrier GR.3 ( seems have laser designator system ) or i don' t think Sea Harrier use LGBs ?




The GR.3s definitely used use Paveway IIs but not 100% sure about the SHAR but could be likely as well. either way they all still need GBD though. I believe the GR.3 uses the Ferranti Type 106 LRMTS which does not illuminate. Back in 82', the Royal Marines etc still need to paint the target.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
The GR.3s definitely used use Paveway IIs but not 100% sure about the SHAR but could be likely as well. either way they all still need GBD though. I believe the GR.3 uses the Ferranti Type 106 LRMTS which does not illuminate. Back in 82', the Royal Marines etc still need to paint the target.
Indeed. Ground designation was the method used, and during the war no Sea Harriers flew with LGBs. By the time the bombs and the GR3s arrived in service, the Sea Harriers were used solely for CAP duties, and the GR3s, which had been modified to fire Sidewinders as attrition replacements for the SHARs, were used just for ground attack missions. LGBs were integrated on the Sea Harriers after the war certainly, but like the GR3s they could not self designate.
 
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