F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

[thunderchief]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Actually NO, the avionics of the F-35 will be standardized, and they are very advanced, as I stated, the F-35 like the F-22 is able to perform as an AWACs and will be "helping" to integrate the fourth gens, which have far less situational awareness into the battlefield.

Not exactly . Proposed radar for F-35 (AN/APG-81 ) is not that much better then new radar for F/A-18 E/F (AN/APG-79 ) . In fact , early versions of 81 may be even worse then 79 , as we can see from picture below . Anyway , there is no reason why you cannot retrofit Super Hornet with newer avionics (if you have the money of course ) . Therefore , if you need mini-AWACS , any relatively modern fighter (4th or 4.5th gen )with large nose could be upgraded to fulfill that role .

The network centricity of the F-35 will be amazing and give it a very large and distinct advantage.

Network centric warfare is not unique for F-35 . In fact , there are solution even for Mig-21 (Mig-21 Bison for example) to share data across network . Basically , you need modern communications equipment and processing power . All of that is sufficiently miniaturized to allow installation on any fighter-sized plane . Only problem is - how much would it cost ? For older planes , it simply doesn't pay off to spend money on that .

On the other hand , if you have newly build Super Hornet , there is no reason why you wouldn't install modern equipment on it .

 

[kwaigonegin]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Exactly. Korea, Japan, Israel, the UK, Spain, Italy...all of them are sold on the ability for this aircraft to enhance those assets they arleady have by potentially an order of magnitude.

Some people always want to diss the F-35, and they completely miss this critical capability...but the F-35 is going to be a game changer. This is particularly true for those nations who can not only effectively deploy it by itself, but who can integrate it into what they have in terms of AEW, AWACS, Sats, and other surveillance networks and then benefit immensely by doing so. In fact, you could easily say that unless you have those things, you can never maximize the benefit the F-35 will bring anyway...besides, as you say, it is a very decent 5th gen fighter/attack aircraft in its own right.

People who diss the aircraft do not understand 21st century air warfare or more specifically network centric warfare and force multipliers. They only compare the F-35 on a one on one basis with certain current generation fighters. Well if anyone does that of course it's hard to justify the acquisition because on some performance envelope a few current Gen fighters do have the advantage on paper over the F-35 however it would be extremely unlikely in any future conflicts where an F-35 goes strictly mano a mano with another fighter with ZERO air or ground support of any kind.

Future conflicts will not be like our grandfather's war where the skills of the individual pilot and the performance envelope of the aircraft means everything simply because everything was done WVR! Whether we all like to admit it or not as weapons technologies become more advance those things become less relevant.

 

[Air Force Brat]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Not exactly . Proposed radar for F-35 (AN/APG-81 ) is not that much better then new radar for F/A-18 E/F (AN/APG-79 ) . In fact , early versions of 81 may be even worse then 79 , as we can see from picture below . Anyway , there is no reason why you cannot retrofit Super Hornet with newer avionics (if you have the money of course ) . Therefore , if you need mini-AWACS , any relatively modern fighter (4th or 4.5th gen )with large nose could be upgraded to fulfill that role .

Network centric warfare is not unique for F-35 . In fact , there are solution even for Mig-21 (Mig-21 Bison for example) to share data across network . Basically , you need modern communications equipment and processing power . All of that is sufficiently miniaturized to allow installation on any fighter-sized plane . Only problem is - how much would it cost ? For older planes , it simply doesn't pay off to spend money on that .

On the other hand , if you have newly build Super Hornet , there is no reason why you wouldn't install modern equipment on it .

Chief, I was initially very skeptical of the F-35 myself, labeling it the ThunderHogge II, an appellation it still deserves, but with the death of the Raptor, the F-35 will have to be good enough, and it will be. In my honest opinion it was/is a grave mistake to kill the Raptor, it was a political decision and not an Air Force decision, the cost of the Raptor was coming down and on a one to one basis, the Raptor is so much more airplane, well its not even on the same planet (hence my little pet joke, that the Raptor was built reverse engineering the alien bird from area 51), but given the Raptors obvious kinematic advantage, the F-35 avionics and airframe integration will be a game changer, and it will be a vast improvement over the current 4-4.5 gen aircraft. As you noted even the Mig-21 will benefit from these types of changes, but the F-35 is the "electric jet" to steal a phrase, and it is in fact built around its avionics. Jeff and Kwai have given you their take on this, and I believe that once we begin to see the F-35 "mix it up" with the four gens, we will see the benefit of the little ThunderHogge II. brat

 

[navyreco]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

The Meteor will bring unprecedent advantage to the F-35 too...
[video=youtube;xYEZnBGPMnI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYEZnBGPMnI[/video]

 

[Equation]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

F-22 died via supply chain obsolesce. The F-22's avionics used the old Intel i960MX processor for many key systems on the F-22, with the entire avionics system to be replaced in 2010. As a result, in 2003 the USAF bought up all the remaining MX chips from Intel (before they closed their line) and used that stock to complete the current production flight of aircraft. The new avionics suite was to be based on the F-35's architecture, but that too was cut somewhere between 2004 and 2006. So in order to produce more F-22s the USAF would be on the hook to pay for a major avionics upgrade program.

Just curious, just how much does it cost just to upgrade the avionics of the F-22 if it were to be put back into production again?

 

[Jeff Head]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Yup.. it's a real damn shame the Raptor was produced in such low numbers! It's probably one of the best fighters ever made only to have it canceled prematurely like that.

As it stands today with just about 180 or so airframes left they can't be in all places at one time if something major hits.

Amen to all of that.

Sadly, that is the truth of ths situation...though the production equipment and all of the jigs are still in existance and at some point in the future, they could start again...but with each passing year now, the less likely it becomes.

In the mean time, the F-35 production continues to ramp up. At the end of this year, the number of aircraft actrually delivered will be at 71 I believe.

In the next five years, production is slated to go as follows:

2014: LRIP 6 - 36 aircraft, bringing the total to 107 aircraft
2015: LRIP 7 - 35 aircraft, bringing the total to 142 aircraft
2016: LRIP 8 - 78 aircraft, bringing the total to 220 aircraft
2017: FRP 1 - 98 aircraft, bringing the total to 318 aircraft
2018: FRP 2 - 137 aircraft bringing the total to 455 aircraft

In the 2018 time frame, after two years of full rate production (FRP), the breakdown of aircraft by country is estimated to be as follows:

US Air Force: 182 Aircraft
US Marines: 126 Aircraft
US Navy: 62 Aircraft
United Kingdom: 18 Aircraft
Italy: 16 Aircraft
Australia: 12 Aircraft
Japan: 10 Aircraft
Netherlands 8 Aircraft
Norway 8 Aircraft
Israel: 8 aircraft
Turkey: 8 Aircraft

Just curious, just how much does it cost just to upgrade the avionics of the F-22 if it were to be put back into production again?

Depends on what they wanted to do in terms of updates.

All of the jigs and manufacturing models, modls, etc. have been retained. Those could be easily brought back together.

But you also have to have a plant outfitted to run all of that. That will not be cheap.

Then, to what level do you want the update?

If it is to produce aircraft that are the equivalent of what the latest mods/updates to existing F-22s are, that would be the cheapest route.

If you wanted to try and update it to make it compatible with the F-35 and all of its newer processors, sensors, capabilities...it would be very, very expensive.

A new F-22 (like the existing ones) would certainly be able to communicate with the F-35s in terms of basic comms...but to get them to integrate, do cooperative engagements, etc., that's a lot more.

 

[Jeff Head]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Off Topic F-22 discussion/posts have been moved to the F-22 Thread. Continue that discussion there.

US Air Force F-22 Raptor, News, Pictures and Videos

Thanks.

 

[FORBIN]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Air Force chose Hill AFB, 388th Fighter Wing to receive first frontline unit.

Construction on base to prepare for the aircraft is expected to start almost immediately in order to be ready to accept the first F-35As, which are scheduled to arrive in 2015. The base is projected to receive 72 F-35As, replacing the 48 F-16 Fighting Falcons currently assigned to Hill.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Air Force Brat]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Air Force chose Hill AFB, 388th Fighter Wing to receive first frontline unit.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

LockMart hosted a celebration of the 100th F-35, it is AF-41 an A model destined for Luke AFB, AF-41 is the 1st of 144 aircraft destined for Luke as they stand up six squadrons of F-35As which will also be replacing F-16s, from the LockMart F-35 home page. brat

 

[FORBIN]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Now 100 produced, 44 are F-35A, 42 are F-35B and 14 are F-35C, with F-35 UK and NL.

87 F-35s have been delivered to the Department of Defense, in more 3 B for UK and 2 A for NL. This number this included 20 pre-series F-35.

Units

USN/USMC :
Yuma VMFA-121 the first F-35 frontline unit completeness, 16 B. Combat ready end 2015 planned. After the VM(F)A-211 will be equipped.
Eglin VMFAT-501 OCU use 11 F-35B ( full staffing 20 ) with in more 3 UK. VFA-101 OCU use 2 F-35B, full staffing 15.
PAX River VX-23 OEU use five F-35B and 4 F-35C
Edwards AFB VX-23 OEU detached 2 F-35B, and 1 F-35C.

USAF
Eglin 33è FW 58 FS, OCU, 16 A + 2 NL, full staffing 24 US.
Edwards 53 Wing(-) 31 TES, 5 F-35A
Nellis 57 W 422 TES use 4 F-35A, weapons test.

Next base very possible Shaw then Kadena, McEntire/ANG.