F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

[Jura The idiot]

good discussion here, just, Brother:

So why don't you tell us why you think the F-35 is so bad, I know its not because you love the F-22,,, that I understand very well, I fully concur that scrubbing the F-22 for the F-35 was an act of extreme stoopidity!

did you work for LockMart or a LockMart competitor and lose your job, or your green card???

my 'American Dream' ended before 'Green Card stage' LOL!

I had J-1 Visa as far as I recall (now realized it must've been 18 years since I applied for it, is it true?!)

LOL and I wasn't fired or ran away or something, I realized I wasn't THAT good and left once the contracts were over

whats the real truth Bub, I think we deserve to know your frame of reference???

and further more, you have yet to link or ink a serious concern about the J-20 or the Su-57,, are you trying to play both sides against the middle,,, or just be a "good guy"???

I think I've said this before: PAKFA's issues have nothing to do with F-35! let's say you and me are seasoned debaters so a diversion can't work, LOL

back to F-35:

I have strategic concerns Jun 20, 2018

just a brief comment on recent posts here:

the US, as a country which has perfected logistics, ended up with ANTI-logistics which is F-35 Project with supply chain as LONG as possible and the number of suppliers as LARGE as possible!

(it appears to work domestically since it makes enough Politicians interested in keeping the project going whatever its actual perfo, but it's pretty risky internationally)

and I have procurement related concerns Jun 17, 2018

now funny thoughts: since

"The Raytheon-built DAS will be integrated into F-35s starting with Lot 15 aircraft, expected to begin deliveries in 2023. The next-generation DAS system is estimated to generate the following results compared to the current system:

...
■ Five times more reliability.
..."

if, and for how much, hundreds of copies built until that 2023 will get their DAS replaced for "five times more reliability" hahaha won't hold my breath until then

and I have operational concerns (if you want, check the equipment part inside The U.S. Air Force Is Hiding Its Controversial Flyoff Between the A-10 and F-35

July 10, 2018

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of course you then can tell me about 'future upgrades')

 

[Jura The idiot]

The improvement of smart bombs and guided arsenals dropped from either plane will be the same really. Most CAS missions as in support of any ground assault units will be done by attack helicopters anyway. CAS strike by either the A-10 or F-35 are more for precise targeting mission types.

armored belly of an A-10 not a factor?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

armored belly of an A-10 not a factor?

The Armored belly is not a factor if you are not in range to get shot at.

 

[Jura The idiot]

after you had quoted

OK let's say it doesn't matter if the test is rigged or not, but what will remain are tactical considerations for actual CAS missions in 2020s

:

In actuality Actual air attack on ground forces is not quite what it is hyped to be.
A10's "Success" has a lot of Caveat and justifying footnotes. In general the function is more Psychological than practical especially when dealing with Opfor with Air defenses. Remember for the Tank on the ground especially a modern tank They have a much simpler job when being attacked from the air then the guy who is attacking from the air. I mean the guy on the ground's job is survive and maybe let loose with some fire. The Pilot has to Attack, Navigate and Survive.

Consider the Avenger. The Vaunted Gau 8 cannon that causes amours feelings among fan boi and is so culturally identified with the A10.. The chances of actually hitting a point on the Tank sensitive to a 30mm are low, An IFV more likely but remember IFV cannons are more likely to be the same caliber and a 30mm round will do a hell of a lot more damage on a aircraft then a ground vehicle.
In trails and testing the fact is the chances of actually hitting a tank with the gunnery of a fighter are low remember that gunnery training is done on fixed targets and guided in. Well ground forces can make this difficult first camouflage the vehicles. If the Attacker cannot find the target well that's a waste of fuel.
Second if spotted, move. a moving small target is far more difficult.
Third OPEN FIRE!! Most Machine guns and Auto cannons have tracers every few rounds a Pilot seeing these has to think to himself " Well that's one Round I see and as much as a dozen I don't. Triple A rate of sucess is one sided to the Aircraft's survival but all it takes is one lucky hit.

The actual number of enemy forces destroyed by air attack vs the number claimed historically is very one sided with the air forces claiming more then actually destroyed, and more often than not it's not Aircraft like the A10 that have really succeeded it's been fighter bombers and even then there are a lot of weaseling to bump up the numbers.
In historic testing using unguided Rockets, The British in the second World war took a captured German Panther painted it white and put it in a empty field then attacked it with fighters. The fiters fired 64 unguided rockets at it. 3 hit. Now yes world war 2 tech. Later American studies along the same lines in the 50's using F86 Sabers against Soviet IS-3 indicated that at a range of around 900m the chances of hitting the tank with rockets was .4% if undefended but add in a defending .50 cal and the Chance drops to .35% with a 50% chance that the Saber would have been shot down.
Again that's a older aircraft tech set but it's important to realize the attack pattern which is the same as what the A10 was supposed to do IE a Charge at enemy armor. The weapons originally envisioned for the A10 were mostly unguided with the sole exception of the Mavrick TV guided missile. This reliance on Strafing means places the Aircraft at a higher rate of attrition. In the Gulf war A10 and F16 were placed in similar missions yet F16 had the higher chance or return from a CAS mission despite the armored and Survivability features of the A10. Why? guided bombs, Faster speed and standoff.

I didn't get what's your message, would it be 'low-altitude CAS not going to happen in 2020s' ??

just asking, as I'm confused by your WW2 data in connection with my 2020s comment (LOL)

anyway the context is the USAF comparing F-35 and A-10 for future CAS!

 

[Jura The idiot]

The Armored belly is not a factor if you are not in range to get shot at.

LOL! a good one

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

after you had quoted :

I didn't get what's your message, would it be 'low-altitude CAS not going to happen in 2020s' ??

just asking, as I'm confused by your WW2 data in connection with my 2020s comment (LOL)

anyway the context is the USAF comparing F-35 and A-10 for future CAS!

My first point is that in general you want to avoid "Low Altitude CAS" today and beyond.
I used old data because in general a lot of it still holds up when dealing in "Low Altitude CAS"
When you star dealing in Guided munitions and Stand off weapons it becomes less of a need especially if you should be avoiding it because the Enemy has Air defenses. but if you need it well the 25mm gun is respectable and Fighters like the F16,F15E,F/A18 have been doing Strafing runs against some forces for some time with 20mm guns.

 

[Jura The idiot]

My first point is that in general you want to avoid "Low Altitude CAS" today and beyond.
I used old data because in general a lot of it still holds up when dealing in "Low Altitude CAS"
When you star dealing in Guided munitions and Stand off weapons it becomes less of a need especially if you should be avoiding it because the Enemy has Air defenses. but if you need it well the 25mm gun is respectable and Fighters like the F16,F15E,F/A18 have been doing Strafing runs against some forces for some time with 20mm guns.

to me it's still strange what you're saying, as you know it's not just a gun but also the Hydra etc., but I'll leave it

May 8, 2018

U.S. Navy Orders Additional APKWS Laser-Guided Rockets

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so it's 25k per stick which is an existing Hydra 70 mm:

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

to me it's still strange what you're saying, as you know it's not just a gun but also the Hydra etc., but I'll leave it

May 8, 2018

As Someone Who has been watching the F35 program have you ever heard of F35 integrating either the Hydra 70/ APKWS? They are supposed to be getting JAGM and Brimstone but APKWS?

 

[Jura The idiot]

As Someone Who has been watching the F35 program have you ever heard of F35 integrating either the Hydra 70/ APKWS? They are supposed to be getting JAGM and Brimstone but APKWS?

exactly, to me it goes back to Yesterday at 7:44 PM

OK let's say it doesn't matter if the test is rigged or not, but what will remain are tactical considerations for actual CAS missions in 2020s

but I'm not going to go in circles now

the point has been if 'one size fits all', and the Pentagon working hard to answer with 'yes: the Joint Strike Fighter'

EDIT says "someone who has been watching the F35 program" LOL

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

As Someone Who has been watching the F35 program have you ever heard of F35 integrating either the Hydra
70/ APKWS? They are supposed to be getting JAGM and Brimstone but APKWS?

exactly

Not quite. First although used widely these system take on 2 bad points first they are unguided and tend to be more area effect which is why the APKWS came around. second is again to use them you need to be strafing which is very vey risky. Which factors back to my point above. if you have guided weapons that can do the same job without needing to close in why not?