F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread
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Brumby
Major
This Is The Most Important Technology On the F-35
It is increasingly clear as I said many times before, the utility of the F-35 is in its software and not hardware. The future air wars are in electronics and this is just part of the umbrella of spectrum domination. This cognitive EW would likely than not be a feature in the LRSB. Such capabilities requires a completely new platform like the F-35 because it has to be rewired with the right technology in data buses, signal and data processors and sensors that were impossible using legacy airframes.
It is increasingly clear as I said many times before, the utility of the F-35 is in its software and not hardware. The future air wars are in electronics and this is just part of the umbrella of spectrum domination. This cognitive EW would likely than not be a feature in the LRSB. Such capabilities requires a completely new platform like the F-35 because it has to be rewired with the right technology in data buses, signal and data processors and sensors that were impossible using legacy airframes.
Actually Mr. Brumby, your article leads in with an absolute HORSE SHer KRAP! statement. Mr. Tucker states that the F-35 "can't" outmaneuver other aircraft. Mr. Tucker is absolutely FULL of you know what, the real filthy, stinky stuff.
The F-35 is a very fine fighter aircraft, it is NOT a program, platform, or computer, it is in fact an aircraft designed by LockMart, it is also an EW dream. That dream still has to aviate in order to meet the threat. It not all about the program, its not all about the EW suite, those elements are part of a package, but they absolutely do NOT overshadow that airframe/engine package of aerodynamics and flying goodness.
I realize that several of the "untouchables" over at our sister forum espouse such tripe, and even "ban" from their little playhouse, those whom they are unable to re-educate into silence. In fact they "forbid" any discussion of the F-22, particularly as it relates to the F-35.
I wouldn't dream of attempting to lecture/educate you on your field of interest/expertise, or finances?? now would I, I also do not stray far outside of my area of specific expertise, but these types of articles lead the ignorant to question why XYZ aircraft cost so damn much. Real Fifth Generation aircraft are very, very, expensive, the fact that our partners can buy/build those at a fairly reasonable cost, belies our very considerable investment in time and cashola. Make NO mistake, they are absolutely essential to achieve/maintain air superiority.
Try removing all your hardware from your PC and see how far that gets you Bub???
Every member of this forum has a basic understanding of a very small aspect of the total EW suite of the F-35, it is a game changer, as I have stated, at some point, some F-35 driver will get the drop on a Raptor Pilot. The Raptor however remains the best fighter aircraft on the planet, it is very unlikely that any F-35 driver will assume that he is going to go out and defeat one Raptor, two Raptors, or ten Raptors???
However, you are correct that the F-35 is built from the ground up to accommodate all those kool electronic accessories, but kool software is worthless without the aircraft that has the teeth to make the kill, or the eyes and ears to see and hear were that bad guy is coming from, where he is, and where he intends to go. I will agree that the F-35 is a "systems" aircraft, but that basic airframe is very strong, very capable, and very active, the F-135 engine may well be one of the 7 wonders of the world??? LOL
Sorry to be abrasive, but those kind of articles really piss me off!
Brat, all you have to do is watch the high off angle testing of the f-35 and then imagine what very capable pilots are going to be able to do with that, to know that the F-35 is going to be able to dsome amazuing things when it comes to agility and maneverabilty.
It will be able to get in the weeds if it has to.
And that is what most people feel is its weak point! LOL!
With its stealth, with its great leap in sensor fusion, with its electronics and EW capabilities, and with the weapons it will carry into combat...it is going to dominate the 4 and 4.5 gen fighters it comes up against. Which is why everyone who can is either trying to get some of these...or to develop their own answer to it.
It will be able to get in the weeds if it has to.
And that is what most people feel is its weak point! LOL!
With its stealth, with its great leap in sensor fusion, with its electronics and EW capabilities, and with the weapons it will carry into combat...it is going to dominate the 4 and 4.5 gen fighters it comes up against. Which is why everyone who can is either trying to get some of these...or to develop their own answer to it.
Amen, and my deepest apologies to Mr. Brumby who I love like a brother, I'm sorry Bub, and you are ten time smarter than the poor old brat. I do however live and breath this stuff, and the F-16, F-15, F-18, Mig-29, SU-27, Eurofighter, and Rafale, each in turn will be "departed" if they attempt the the high angle of attack pitch transitions that the F-35 is happily capable of. The F-35, like the early F-16 is right now a puppy on a leash, it is a very, very, safe airplane.
Once the F-16 FCS was tweaked to "do the do", at the pilot communities insistence, it is a much less safe airplane, when it is departed, it will eat your lunch unless you know exactly what you are doing, and if you are snoozing, it could be the last time. So to proclaim that the F-35 "can't" maneuver, is the very depths of stoopidity and ignorance?? All airframes have a design operating envelope, and I can assure you the F-35s envelope has already been expanded, and is exceeding expectations. It is so benign in post stall that the spin chute was removed and further testing continued. A very sweet Fighter Aircraft, your little sister can fight it if shes computer literate?
Brumby
Major
Mr. Brat in my view your reaction is highly misplaced. A F-35 cost approx. $250 million each (incl R&D). In contrast, a F-15 SE is close to $100 million.Justifying how capapble the F-35 airframe is for that extra $150 miilion will always be a loosing narrative. The program is to deliver a platform that can operate inside a highly contested threat bubble and to prevail. For example, if tomorrow a decision is made to kick the Iranian mullah's butt the F-35 can fly through and over whatever S300/400 that they may have and get the job done and return the planes and pilots safely. This is what $250 million buys you. A platform with the stealth, sensor fusion and EW capability to do the job. It is not about how manueverable or not. In contrast the F-15 SE will not be able to execute the same mission sets with equal impunity and will not offer the same survivability to its pliots. You might say what about the inevitable air to air combat. Recent history tells us 65 % of air combat engagements are won through better SA and by way of BVR. Future trend will extend that percentage even more. The F-35's stealth and superior SA will ensure it prevails in those scenarios and and not because of its manueverability. That leaves us with the 35% or less scenarios. Frankly when you run out of missiles and if you have a choice I would simply turn in for the day rather than engage in a knife fight. The reasoning is as clear as daylight.. In a phone booth, it boils down to training, tactics and luck. In short, the chances of success is no more thn a coin toss. This type of odds is simply unacceptable. You choose your battles when you have clear adavantage. When the cost of planes to your adversaries is around $70 million, you will loose the war simply through attrition based on those odds.
The article has a mountain of words talking about how wonderful the futire EW brings to the platform but yet you choose to take offence over two words. Frankly I think you are barking at the wrong end of the spectrum.
F-35 angel or devil depends the feeling 
I am not agree Brumby and F-15SE is not a true stealth aircraft in more
Despite get some interesting specifications especially a big range and payload but not able as F-35 vs ennemy AD.
You factor total F-35 price for MOD with all modifications for the first, spares and repairs, RDTE, also follow on dev nothing to do with purchase price, in 2015 :
F-35A : 142 mill $/Fly away 120
F-35B : 221/160
F-35C : 219/155
Average : 182/145
A big difference with 250 !
Each lot want about 3/5 % inless and after in FRP and much more build x 2 to 5 dépends variants the price down much again LM say 80 for A in 2018 possible max 100 and B/C go for 150 max.
For engines price again down
For comparison and in general mentionned Fly away cost
Rafale AF : 100 mill $
Typhoon : 110
I am not a big fan, but like the true.
I am not agree Brumby and F-15SE is not a true stealth aircraft in more
Despite get some interesting specifications especially a big range and payload but not able as F-35 vs ennemy AD.
not only
You factor total F-35 price for MOD with all modifications for the first, spares and repairs, RDTE, also follow on dev nothing to do with purchase price, in 2015 :
F-35A : 142 mill $/Fly away 120
F-35B : 221/160
F-35C : 219/155
Average : 182/145
A big difference with 250 !
Each lot want about 3/5 % inless and after in FRP and much more build x 2 to 5 dépends variants the price down much again LM say 80 for A in 2018 possible max 100 and B/C go for 150 max.
For engines price again down
For comparison and in general mentionned Fly away cost
Rafale AF : 100 mill $
Typhoon : 110
I am not a big fan, but like the true.
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F-35 angel or devil depends the feeling
I am not agree Brumby and F-15SE is not a true stealth aircraft in more
Despite get some interesting specifications especially a big range and payload but not able as F-35 vs ennemy AD.
not only
You factor total F-35 price for MOD with all modifications for the first, spares and repairs, RDTE, also follow on dev nothing to do with purchase price, in 2015 :
F-35A : 142 mill $/Fly away 120
F-35B : 221/160
F-35C : 219/155
Average : 182/145
A big difference with 250 !
Each lot want about 3/5 % inless and after in FRP and much more build x 2 to 5 dépends variants the price down much again LM say 80 for A in 2018 possible max 100 and B/C go for 150 max.
For engines price again down
For comparison and in general mentionned Fly away cost
Rafale AF : 100 mill $
Typhoon : 110
I am not a big fan, but like the true.
Most of the time I do agree with both you and Mr. Brumby, two gentlemen whom I highly respect.
A Hi-Point 9MM costs 200 bucks, and FN High Power costs 600 to 1000, I own an FN, they will both fire 9MM bullets, the Hi-Point likely functions reasonably well, but it will never be an FN Hi-Power?? and no I don't own a Glock, or even a Ruger. I buy something that works and fits my hand, something that seems to connect with me.
If I could re-open the Raptor line today for twice the actual fly-away cost of the last production Raptor, I would, even if I had to spend every dime in MY OWN retirement acct, I'm Gonna WIN. The cost of defeat is far greater, but I would remind each one here, that the ThunderHogge II is the Raptors little sister, it is its aerodynamic twin, without OVT. If I were to re-open the Raptor line, I would use two F-135s, but I would not worry about OVT.
The F-15 is the finest pure aerodynamic fighter that was ever designed, but one Raptor will wax 8 F-15s pure and simple??? I have no doubt the F-35 will be equally as successful, but we are finding out now in the various Red Flag excercises that are now being conducted, so we will know soon enough? The F-35 offers some kool tools the Raptor will be jealous of, including situational awareness and that HMS?
It's one thing not to do coz so expensive, so late now and less F-35 ordered and essential for maintain superiority have a big number of F-35 which despite some cost problems now improves and US services can hope have the ~ 2400 planned.
Ideally USAF at the end wanted 250 F-22 for get a 4th Wing on, very possible Eglin. Before wanted 335 for have this 4 wings with 3 Sqns as F-15 Wings or eventually more as 1 for ANG.
Also Coz budget less problematic now but remains not illimited... impossible get the 2 in big numbers.
The 185 F-22 rest to this number and 250 F-15C* help him for air superiority now an important number after all are upgraded with AESA radars and remains very decent fighters want better than Su-30 and even or close last Flankers with same long range.
*Very possible replaced by last F-35A, F-15E replaced by 6 th gen.
Better spend money for increase F-35 military capacities by ex 6 AAM internaly, get more fast some weapons SDB, AGM-158, AShM... and FT which allow to him a range more big or close as a F-15 in non stealth missions.
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