F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

[thunderchief]

Not Really, Stealth is a descriptor of aircraft that practice the art of L/O, and it is an art form. No one else besides LockMart seems to have a lock on L/O in the fighter world, the F22 and the F-35 stand as the current gold standard of L/O, the Russians admit they don't have a real handle on those technologies, so they throw a bunch of dust in the air, and mutter a bunch of "mumbo-jumbo", like a bad magician.

the Chinese may have a very stealthy aircraft in the J-20, we just don't know? but with all the alleged data breaches, attributed to the Chinese, they obviously are very interested?? NO??

So my advice is that before you go "sniping" at the F-35, which as you and I both know is called the joint "strike" fighter, that you take off your "rose colored" glasses and share the same criticisms with the J-20, J-31, and PAK-FA, or FGFA. The F-22 production was cancelled and the F-35 the "Golden Child" and saved, because the F-35 promises to be a winner on the battlefield of tomorrow?? I agree that even here in its infancy, it is very good, the US Marines are convinced? maybe you ought to follow the people who put their money where their mouth is?

That is the whole point How would you define low observability ? At what range would, let's say , Russian Su-30 SM detect F-35 in clean configuration, using current sensors and those deployed in future ? At what range would F-35 detect Su-30, with current and future jamming equipment ? Would that be enough to shoot (and hit) first ? Btw, Russians are claiming that their aircraft (PAK FA) is stealthier then F-35 . But, how would we supposed to verify or disprove that if we don't have enough parameters to solve equation ?

Unfortunately for F-35, what we could confirm is that this aircraft is not particularly fast and it has mediocre maneuverability, especially compared to F-22 and PAK FA . As for J-20, I would bet it is faster then F-35, don't know about turning ability , at least with current engines . J-31 is too immature to comment , although it looks lot cleaner then F-35 .

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

That is the whole point How would you define low observability ? At what range would, let's say , Russian Su-30 SM detect F-35 in clean configuration, using current sensors and those deployed in future ? At what range would F-35 detect Su-30, with current and future jamming equipment ? Would that be enough to shoot (and hit) first ?

The F35 is likely to detect the SU30 from twice the range that the SU30 would the F35. this is because the LO of the F35 would produce the smaller cross section that the 30's radar would have to deal with. the SU30 being only limited in LO would have the larger profile more easily detected at range. even with so called Anti stealth the Range of detection of a LO platform is still reduced.

Btw, Russians are claiming that their aircraft (PAK FA) is stealthier then F-35 . But, how would we supposed to verify or disprove that if we don't have enough parameters to solve equation ?

The Russians have made a lot of claims but how much is true? I will give them this there bird the T50 will have a larger stealth ( internally carried ) weapons load then the F35 and F22. but is it stealthier? hard to say. It's still Russias first stealth aircraft.

Unfortunately for F-35, what we could confirm is that this aircraft is not particularly fast and it has mediocre maneuverability, especially compared to F-22 and PAK FA . As for J-20, I would bet it is faster then F-35, don't know about turning ability , at least with current engines . J-31 is too immature to comment , although it looks lot cleaner then F-35 .

We have gone over the Maneuverability of F35 before. It differs from version to version but overall yes it's not going to bank in a turn like a Raptor but then does it need to? I would hardly call it Mediocre. It was contending with the second best maneuvering fighter in the US arsenal.
It's not designed for super maneuverability like Raptor was It's designed to engage via long range missile kills. It was designed primarily for strike missions rather then air superiority.

 

[bd popeye]

I found these in another forum

F-35 ITF and Italian Air Force KC-767 'fuel' the way for AR milestone

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

An Italian Air Force KC-767A tanker prepares to refuel an F-35A during their first test sortie July 22, 2015. Italy’s F-35 program achieved two recent milestones with the completion of the first aerial refueling certification between an Italian Air Force KC-767A tanker with an F-35A and the inaugural flight of an Italian-built F-35A. (Lockheed Martin photo/Jonathan Case)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

An Italian Air Force boom operator looks through a helmet-mounted display, which displays three-dimensional imagery of the boom, while refueling an F-35A during a sortie Sept. 2. Boom operators onboard the Italian AF KC-767A tanker use a remote vision system, which consists of two stereoscopic cameras on the bottom of the tanker, in order to refuel. (U.S. Air Force photo by Jet Fabara)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

An Italian Air Force KC-767A tanker refuels an F-35A during a test sortie Aug. 6, 2015. Italy’s F-35 program achieved two recent milestones with the completion of the first aerial refueling certification between an Italian Air Force KC-767A tanker with an F-35A and the inaugural flight of an Italian-built F-35A. (Lockheed Martin photo/Jonathan Case)

 

[thunderchief]

The F35 is likely to detect the SU30 from twice the range that the SU30 would the F35. this is because the LO of the F35 would produce the smaller cross section that the 30's radar would have to deal with. the SU30 being only limited in LO would have the larger profile more easily detected at range. even with so called Anti stealth the Range of detection of a LO platform is still reduced.

Let's assume you are right, but with a twist . F-35 could detect Su-30 from 300 km , and Su-30 could detect F-35 from 150 km . With current missile technology, it is not enough to give F-35 meaningful advantage in combat . In such scenario best thing F-35 could do would be to try to steer clear of them .

The Russians have made a lot of claims but how much is true? I will give them this there bird the T50 will have a larger stealth ( internally carried ) weapons load then the F35 and F22. but is it stealthier? hard to say. It's still Russias first stealth aircraft.

True, it is their first true stealth aircraft (Tu-160 is semi-stealthy ), yet we cannot dismiss their claims outright . Technological advantages are lost and gained .

We have gone over the Maneuverability of F35 before. It differs from version to version but overall yes it's not going to bank in a turn like a Raptor but then does it need to? I would hardly call it Mediocre. It was contending with the second best maneuvering fighter in the US arsenal.
It's not designed for super maneuverability like Raptor was It's designed to engage via long range missile kills. It was designed primarily for strike missions rather then air superiority.

Raptor is not the problem, Flankers are . Do you really think F-35 could outmaneuver Su-35 , aforementioned Su-30 SM or J-11 B ?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Does it need to out turn it? The only situation where a fighter really needs that turning and speed is in close fighting. Less then 6 miles.
Thing is most modern air to Air kills are not in that envelope. If Lighting can see and know where the bogies are before the bogies know where they are they have the advantage and can begin the attack with out needing to close range.
You play to your advantage not your enemies. Keep the Flankers, Fulcrums and J10 at a distance and engage them before they can get you in there kill box. The F16 dog fight was a close fight not a range fight.

 

[thunderchief]

Does it need to out turn it? The only situation where a fighter really needs that turning and speed is in close fighting. Less then 6 miles.
Thing is most modern air to Air kills are not in that envelope. If Lighting can see and know where the bogies are before the bogies know where they are they have the advantage and can begin the attack with out needing to close range.
You play to your advantage not your enemies. Keep the Flankers, Fulcrums and J10 at a distance and engage them before they can get you in there kill box. The F16 dog fight was a close fight not a range fight.

It would need turning ability to dodge missiles ( both in BVR or WVR ) . It would need to fly fast and climb high, in order to achieve advantage for missile launch (range of missile depends on speed and height ) . Finally, it could get in close combat, especially if jamming technology advances sufficiently to block BVR shoots. In all those areas F-35 is mediocre, especially compared to opposition. You play to your advantage, but enemy would certainly try to play to theirs.

 

[Air Force Brat]

It would need turning ability to dodge missiles ( both in BVR or WVR ) . It would need to fly fast and climb high, in order to achieve advantage for missile launch (range of missile depends on speed and height ) . Finally, it could get in close combat, especially if jamming technology advances sufficiently to block BVR shoots. In all those areas F-35 is mediocre, especially compared to opposition. You play to your advantage, but enemy would certainly try to play to theirs.

Oh come on Chief Thundercloud?? if you have a SAM OR AAMRAM on your butt, you better stick you head between your knees and kiss your butt goodbye?? On the other hand while no doubt the F-35 isn't an F-16, it will still defeat all comers except possibly the F-22, that is the ONLY contest that is in doubt today? The F-35 will pick you up long before you see him, and even then he will have time to close the gap to get well inside the "you can run, but you'll only die tired range" of those A2A missiles, you really know that don't you!

Yes, I love taking about the merge, its still kool, and we still train to win that situation as well, and we are talking about "knowing" where the other guy is, and knowing where he's gonna be when your A2A missile finds its mark, you see an F-35 you better "break off and run" he may give you a pass??? and prolly will? American's still don't believe in shooting some-one in the back, remember, we R the good guys! and we all wear "white hats".

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Dodging missiles is not quite as impossible as you make it seem a object moving at mach 3 + has a large turning radius. It just needs enough maneuverability and countermeasures vs the aggressor missile threat.
Fact the F35 vs F16 engagement doesn't mean that the F35 Handles like a trash truck. It did fail to keep in the turn with a F16 model, however it was still able to try.
Lets face a fact, to date since the beginning of the Teen series American Fighters vs Russian Flanker and Fulcrum the US fighters have operated at a kinetic energy disadvantage. F15 and F16 are not designed for the Cobra maneuver and require extensive modification to achieve it. So by that admission how is it that in combat F15 and F16 have dominated vs Mig29 and Su25? Strategy, Tactics and technology.
Yes there are risks. But the aim of F35 is a strike fighter a multi role platform not a dedicated air superiority platform that is where Raptor is meant to partner.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Dodging missiles is not quite as impossible as you make it seem a object moving at mach 3 + has a large turning radius. It just needs enough maneuverability and countermeasures vs the aggressor missile threat.
Fact the F35 vs F16 engagement doesn't mean that the F35 Handles like a trash truck. It did fail to keep in the turn with a F16 model, however it was still able to try.
Lets face a fact, to date since the beginning of the Teen series American Fighters vs Russian Flanker and Fulcrum the US fighters have operated at a kinetic energy disadvantage. F15 and F16 are not designed for the Cobra maneuver and require extensive modification to achieve it. So by that admission how is it that in combat F15 and F16 have dominated vs Mig29 and Su25? Strategy, Tactics and technology.
Yes there are risks. But the aim of F35 is a strike fighter a multi role platform not a dedicated air superiority platform that is where Raptor is meant to partner.

Actually the A2A missile is very agile, and can pull an incredible amount of Gs with its very tight turn radius and high thrust to weight ratio. If you are high, if you are very fast, and if you are stealthy and hard to "lock on to", and if you have the fuel to "peg it" you might win?

The F-35A is rated for 9Gs, it is likely to be slightly less agile than the F-16 dash 50s due to their very fine turning and thrust to weight ratio. While the Raptor will perform a cobra, the Raptor is never "departed" during those high jinks as the Su-27s and family are by the "Russian Showmen". To perform the Cobra during the "furball" is likely the last maneuver you will ever perform, it will leave you "defensive", more than likely you will be "dead-meat", you will use every trick to keep your speed and energy at the top of the green, in fact A2A missiles launched from high speed and high altitude will likely win the fight for you? Advantage F-22, Typhoon, maybe Su-35, T-50, or J-20, we just don't know how agile those new birds will be, but they will likely be much less "stealthy" than the F-35.

You can't shoot, what you can't see, it just isn't going to happen?

 

[FORBIN]