F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

This thread is about F-35 NEWS, Videos, Pictures, etc.

It is NOT about unsourced wild-eyed comments. It is not about nay-saying the project.

If there is sourced, credible news about issues, it is fine to post those and talk about them...but when it turns over to pure detraction, nay-saying, posting of unsourced speculation, etc. we are going to start putting such nonsense to rest.

SD is a great place, and as professional a Chinese and World military forum as we can make it. We aim to keep it that way and avoid the other.

DO NOT RSPOND TO THIS MODERATION
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Astute posted the following from National Interest in the US Military thread. I thought it should also be here:

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pix4_121814.jpg

Advanced derivatives of Lockheed Martin F-35 JSF could replace the F-22 Raptor, F-15C Eagle, & F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

NAtional Interest said:
Advanced derivatives of the tri-service Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter could replace the Air Force’s F-22 Raptor, Boeing F-15C Eagle and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, multiple sources told the National Interest. However, they added that the idea of replacing the high flying and fast Raptor with the slower and less agile F-35 was not well received by many within the Air Force.

“No doubt that the F-35 will be doing air dominance missions in the future,” one industry official said. “Especially with more internal air-to-air, and maybe a new engine.”

Both the U.S. Air Force (USAF) and the U.S. Navy (USN) have begun preliminary work on analysis of alternatives (AOA) for the sixth-generations of those aircraft. The Air Force effort, called the F-X, is aimed at recapitalizing its fleet of air superiority fighters while the Navy’s F/A-XX program is expected to produce a replacement for the Super Hornet. The Navy will start its formal AOA in 2015 while the Air Force’s analysis will start a little later—in about a year and a half from now.

The Air Force hopes to enter into a technology development phase in 2018.

While both the Navy and the Air Force are looking at many possible options to replace their jets, including modernized versions of current aircraft, new clean-sheet designs—manned and unmanned—and some other outside-the-box ideas, one of the major contenders to replace the F-22, F-15 and F/A-18E/F is a highly modified F-35.

“It will likely be one of the alternatives in the Analysis of Alternatives,” said a senior Air Force official.

The Navy, too, will likely consider a highly modified F-35 to fit its F/A-XX requirement, service officials confirmed. “We will both have to do it in order to baseline our capabilities and ensure the taxpayer and services are getting the best alternative,” the Air Force official said. “It's routine for us to look at whether or not existing systems or modifications to existing systems can fulfill our gaps.”

The Air Force official added that another alternative will be to modify and upgrade the tiny 186 aircraft-strong F-22 Raptor fleet. “Modifying the Raptor will be an option too,” he said. “I doubt either the F-22 or F-35 will ‘win.’”

The Air Force and Navy are adamant that their disparate mission requirements for the F-X and F/A-XX will mean that they will ultimately require separate solutions. “I would expect our requirements to be a lot different from the Navy’s,” Col. Tom Coglitore, who heads Air Combat Command’s Air Superiority Core Function Team and the F-X program, told the trade journal Aviation Week in its Oct. 13 issue. “Our system of systems would be more offensively minded and operate in more difficult and highly contested areas of operation than the areas the Navy will likely be operating in.”

Industry officials, however, are less certain that the Air Force and Navy will ultimately be able to afford separate platforms to replace their aging fleets. The most likely scenario is that budgetary realities will force the two services to develop a common platform. “USAF and Navy can ‘afford’ to have differences now, since everything is pre AoA. However, fiscal realities will force them to align technology and weapons investments,” the industry official said. “Their differences stem primarily from out-of-phase need dates, and different capability emphases.”

Given that defense spending does not look like it will increase in the near future—especially in the coming years when technologies for the F/A-XX and F-X will have to be developed—advanced versions of the F-35 might be the best option for the Air Force. “The USAF will need to factor F-35A—and ‘E’—into the air dominance equation,” the industry official said. “Especially when it’s loaded with next generation air-to-air missiles, and other technologies.”

The Navy, given the limitations of aircraft carriers and their increasing vulnerability to anti-ship cruise and ballistic missiles, might have to concede the high-end air superiority mission to the Air Force.

Arguably, the service already gave up that role with the demise of the Grumman F-14 Tomcat fleet and the cancellation of the Naval Advanced Tactical Fighter and A/F-X programs during the 1990s drawdown.

“The Navy may need to be content with ceding the uber-air dominance mission to the USAF due to the geometric constraints of their ‘mobile airbases,’” the industry official said.

A Lockheed Martin official would not provide any information on advanced F-35 derivatives that are currently in the works—but acknowledged that such projects are underway. “We cannot provide any details on either of these topics given their proprietary nature,” company spokeswoman Heather Kelso said.

Operational Air Force pilots with air superiority fighter experience were less than enthusiastic about the prospect of the F-35 replacing the Raptor or F-15. “I hope they get that we need to be well beyond the F-35 in the future and recycling a ramped up proposal isn't going to be good enough,” one senior officer said.

Another added that it was physically impossible for the F-35 to match, much less replace, the F-22. “F-35s will never be able to sit at the table with F-22s in the realm of air-to-air and SEAD/DEAD [suppression of enemy air defenses/destruction of enemy air defenses],” the senior Air Force pilot said. “Doesn't have the performance, doesn't have the payload, doesn't have the stealth.”
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Astute posted the following from National Interest in the US Military thread. I thought it should also be here:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


pix4_121814.jpg

Advanced derivatives of Lockheed Martin F-35 JSF could replace the F-22 Raptor, F-15C Eagle, & F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

The last two paragraphs by senior Air Force officers is rather telling, the F-35 nor its derivatives, will meet or match the F-22, as it simply is not in the same league, nor should it be expected to be. The Air Force needs a serious contender in the F-22 category to meet the future threats that are in the process today of being designed and built. The Navy's philosophy has changed since the F-14 Tomcat days and the adoption of the Super Hornet, which is no doubt a very fine and practical aircraft for the USN. It is very clear that these Air Force Aviators will need a Raptor+ to meet the threats that loom on the horizon, their dissatisfaction with a ThunderHoggeII derivative is indeed telling.

We are going to need more capability in the future, not less, if they were looking at a Raptor+ type aircraft, I have no doubt they would be all onboard, as they recognize its true superiority over the F-35 category aircraft, but it will no doubt take more than the current 184 Raptors to stand against that future threat.

The upgraded F-35 on the other hand will remain a viable aircraft for future threats of the less intense variety, and it can no doubt be made to perform better with a little tweaking.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Advanced derivatives of the tri-service Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter could replace the Air Force’s F-22 Raptor, Boeing F-15C Eagle and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, multiple sources told the National Interest. However, they added that the idea of replacing the high flying and fast Raptor with the slower and less agile F-35 was not well received by many within the Air Force.
And rightfully so. Raptor is a fighters fighter lightning is a fighter bomber. presumably any super F35 would be re engined. but still the result would be a less then grand fighter. I would rather see a super F22.
Both the U.S. Air Force (USAF) and the U.S. Navy (USN) have begun preliminary work on analysis of alternatives (AOA) for the sixth-generations of those aircraft. The Air Force effort, called the F-X, is aimed at recapitalizing its fleet of air superiority fighters while the Navy’s F/A-XX program is expected to produce a replacement for the Super Hornet. The Navy will start its formal AOA in 2015 while the Air Force’s analysis will start a little later—in about a year and a half from now.
so this is looking for options a possibility of a platform to fall back to. Supper lightning might work better for the navy then the Airforce and best for the marines. but the Navy and Air forces need a real Air superiority fighter even if it's a super Raptor that will land on carriers. Super lightning will be built but only really as life extension for lightnings.
 

Scratch

Captain
We are going to need more capability in the future, not less, if they were looking at a Raptor+ type aircraft, I have no doubt they would be all onboard, as they recognize its true superiority over the F-35 category aircraft, but it will no doubt take more than the current 184 Raptors to stand against that future threat.

The upgraded F-35 on the other hand will remain a viable aircraft for future threats of the less intense variety, and it can no doubt be made to perform better with a little tweaking.

There should still be space in the Raptors engine bay to accomodate (a development of) the YF-120 engine the was developed for and tested with the original ATF program. Since I'm pretty sure that type of rdevelopment will go ahead anyway for a next gen fighter, there wouldn't be any money wasted.
It could add some range I'm sure by being more economical through a wider range of flight conditions and give a little more top thrust, maybe.
The same could also be true for the F-35 to a lesser extent maybe. It's F-135 was developed from the same core as the F-119, which in turn fit the same engine bay as the YF-120. Also that's quite some turns I'm taking here :)

Additionally, latest radar and sensor fusion tech from the JSF could migrate to a Super Raptor.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Well, the US Air Force will have a 6th generation fighter (F-X) coming forward at the time it is needed IMHO. In the interim they may upgrade the F-22s...but I still do not think there will be a peer platform that can exceed the F-22 in the time frames we are talking about...meaning before the F-X 6th generation fighters start coming out.

The Pentagon's 2015 budget request has studies to lead to an acquisition program starting in fiscal year 2018...which mean, if it happens, that it will probably be 2030 before there is a chance that the aircraft's prototype will actually be flying.

As it is...let's take the F-22 and future F-22 detailed discussion to the F-22 thread and leave this one for the F-35.
 
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A Bar Brother

Junior Member
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Can someone please confirm me this criticism is absolutely BS, right? Or are you agree with that?

While I don't necessarily agree with everything he mentioned, he may be right because he is an insider. What I mean is it is difficult to back up what he says in open source.

Jeff, the "internet expert" you are referring to (if you are, that is, in reference to what Astute posted) is an ex-IN officer who flew the Harrier. He is currently working with HAL through his company to build a 5th gen aircraft for the IAF, independent from the AMCA and FGFA.

He is basically an insider. He knows a "bit more" than open source. There is some truth in what he said about the R-77 with AESA and QWIP IIR, though there is very little information in open source. He has been researching air to air missiles for his jet for sometime now. So I would say he knows what he is talking about.

The Indian Navy were given presentations for the F-35, so they have a basic idea of what the jet is capable of. I don't know up to what level he can comment on the F-35, but the navy should have access to information on the MRCA too since it was a navy admiral who released information on the prices of MRCA jets a few years ago, so they have information on Rafale to compare with.
 

Bernard

Junior Member
Ok I have a question for the nay-sayers about stealth and the F-35. Russia and China both say they can see stealth aircraft now or soon with their radars on whatever spectrum bands. But wouldn't the U.S, being the only country with two 5th gen stealth aircraft (And F-117), know that what they tout as Stealth seeing radar is false? And also wouldn't the U.S be the only country to be able develop a radar that can see stealth? Because they can use their operational aircraft against it?
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Well The Russians and Chinese can analytically and empirically try to develop counter stealth which is what they have done. Stealth is signature reduction and management. The Russians and Chinese and every one else knows this. They also have the ability to model and using open source material they know the angles speeds and can take a guess at the materials of a stealth fighter then they can reverse it. Stealth is based on a mathematical principle written by Russian Mathematician and physicist Petr Ufimtsev when computer processed and adapted into 3D you can gage the reflection of radar energies this model called Echo was first used by Lockheed for the Have Blue program that is the father of the F117 it was then refined with Northrop's Tacit Blue the Grandmother of the F22 and F35 and all modern Stealth aircraft. Now using this data they can in theory develop a radar optimized to see the deflection. to see the smaller signature and discern that it's not a bird and it's not superman so it must be a plane.
As to how well theory translates to reality? well now that both have there own stealth programs they must be at least testing it.
 
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