F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

yeah but how would they integrate them into F-35?? F-35 can't shoot American weaponry yet (software not ready) ...

One of the strengths of the F-35 is the ability to carry your own weapons for partner nations, so IOC will likely be achieved using off the shelf weaponry, with the ability to simply and quickly???? upgrade your aircraft to integrate your own munitions into your aircraft... How well this works in practice we shall see, but the F-35 does have a "modular" "fire control", one of the reasons the F-35 is more vulnerable to hacking in my opinion. As for UCAV/UCAS, I doubt there is a significantly lower price for each of these aircraft, than for a manned platform, as they build more, the price will no doubt come down, but that technology remains very expensive, and not nearly as capable as a manned platform.

While I certainly understand the philosophy of mitigating risk to the pilot, and I realize that many see him/her as the weak link in the chain, my own perspective is that the pilot brings a lot more capability to the game than UCAVers want to admit. UCAV technology at this stage, while certainly capable and impressive in the ability to operate the X-47B off the deck, in my personal opinion unmanned aircraft are currently problematic in two areas, they lack the ability to "discriminate" friend from foe?? ( the Obama administration has a very high rate of "collateral damage", and the ability to safely and effectively operate the aircraft?? (UCAV/RPVs seem to have a very high accident rate).:p:p:p:p

No one can deny that in this BHO economy the military is currently suffering, and the civilian leadership loves the idea of "drones" doing the "dirty work", as if the equipment itself becomes the "guilty party" if mistakes continue to be made?? all of the "caveats" are real, but non more real than the reality that money put into this technology, will "rob" manned programs like the F-35 of real cash and engineering expertise, IMHO we simply must not sacrifice the manned capability that aircraft like the F-35 bring to a real world conflict, the ability to have a decision maker in the cockpit, and "on scene" cannot be underestimated, even by those of us who are into the "gee-whiz" stuff?:confused::confused::p

The reality is that UCAVs cost nearly as much as manned aircraft, as you expect them to do more and more, and pursue "autonomy", their price will increase "exponentially", "mark my word", if it becomes apparent that I'm wrong, I will issue and apology, but my gut says you don't get something for nothing, which this "pie in the sky" crowd is touting???? I'm going to put my money, engineering skill into proven technology, and a pilot in the cockpit to make those decisions that a "heartless" machine will continue to get wrong.:(:(:(
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Do they not make their own? I'm sure a wealthy and technologically very advanced country like Japan can easily produce its own missiles.

They already have AAMs. They have deployed the AAM-4 (BVR) and AAM-5 (WVR) made by Mitsubishi. The AAM-4B is meant to have an AESA seeker.

The Japanese may want their own missiles once they place larger orders for the F-35.
 

HMS Astute

Junior Member
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

yeah but how would they integrate them into F-35?? F-35 can't shoot American weaponry yet (software not ready) ...
F-35 is in development, but UK is already getting self made weapons like Brimstone, Meteor etc for it's future F-35s which are still in US.

Japan can easily follow the same path.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

They already have AAMs. They have deployed the AAM-4 (BVR) and AAM-5 (WVR) made by Mitsubishi. The AAM-4B is meant to have an AESA seeker.

The Japanese may want their own missiles once they place larger orders for the F-35.

Right, and from the very beginning the F-35 has been designed to achieve a certain economy of scale by allowing partners to utilize their own munitions, which is an outstanding idea, and a real money saver!
 
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

F-35 is in development, but UK is already getting self made weapons like Brimstone, Meteor etc for it's future F-35s which are still in US.

Japan can easily follow the same path.

now I found a funny discrepancy:
while
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
says
The missile ought to be integrated into the Block 4 of F-35.
the official F-35 site doesn't mention "Block 4" in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

:)

anyway, the point is to make sure your ordnance can be integrated into F-35 (using some software block), not just stockpile ...

in the process I found out, at the official F-35 site:
Current Software Development Status

As of November 2014, more than 89 percent of the required F-35 software is currently flying. Approximately 99 percent of the required software has been coded. This equates to about 105,000 lines of code that remain to be written.
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Right, and from the very beginning the F-35 has been designed to achieve a certain economy of scale by allowing partners to utilize their own munitions, which is an outstanding idea, and a real money saver!

I actually don't think it saves money, depending on who is buying the F-35. An Aim-120 is cheaper than an AAM-4. But it gives the partner nations more autonomy in using the weapons, while taking care of supply. Not to mention, creating more jobs.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

I actually don't think it saves money, depending on who is buying the F-35. An Aim-120 is cheaper than an AAM-4. But it gives the partner nations more autonomy in using the weapons, while taking care of supply. Not to mention, creating more jobs.

Isn't that the definition of saving money? you build your own weapons in house, you are NOT paying my price to buy my weapons??? It has to save money, and the jobs put money in to YOUR economy, not mine???

Lets get a little simple, I raise my own tomatoes, cucumbers and potatoes during the summer, I have to work, but I save a lot of money???
 

HMS Astute

Junior Member
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

The size of Nimitz is just mind blowing...

[video=youtube;APuYyfq12ts]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APuYyfq12ts#t=17[/video]​
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Isn't that the definition of saving money? you build your own weapons in house, you are NOT paying my price to buy my weapons??? It has to save money, and the jobs put money in to YOUR economy, not mine???

Lets get a little simple, I raise my own tomatoes, cucumbers and potatoes during the summer, I have to work, but I save a lot of money???

It depends on who owns the garden and how much the tomatoes cost.

If you are referring to entire countries, then what you stated is true. But if you break it down to the air forces and the supplier companies, then partner nations are actually shelling out more money than if they bought from the US.

If Japan pays $1.5 Million for an Aim-120 and $3 Million for an AAM-4, then JASDF pays $750 Million to Raytheon for 500 missiles or $1.5 Billion to Mitsubishi for the same. The choice here is really between affordability and supply guarantees. Even if "your" price is higher than what the USAF pays, it is still cheaper than the AAM-4.

Technically, Japan isn't saving money by paying more on "perishable goods," whether they make it in Japan or get it from the US. India will save a huge amount of money by getting the Rafales made in France, even though the aircraft are meant to be made in India, but affordability isn't high on the priority of the govt when it comes to acquiring cutting edge technologies. That's the same benefit that the Japanese are looking for. They basically plan to buy a lot of Aim-120s because it is more affordable, but at the same time they will buy the AAM-4s to support their indigenous industry because they know it is very important.

Basically what you are saying is it doesn't matter how much the tomatoes cost as long as the money stays in the country. If that's true, then you should have no problems if the unit cost of the F-35 is $500 Million. The money stays in the country, even though the money goes into Lockheed Martin's pockets. After all, it is their garden and their tomatoes.

All of the above is considering we are talking about Japan. Now, if the F-35 is to be made in Russia, but with Russian weapons, then the cheaper cost of the RVV-SD compared to the Aim-120 will definitely work in the Russians' favor. After all, you are only saving money when the cost of the "perishable goods" is lesser, regardless of whether the money is going into your own market or someone else's.

That's what I meant when I said, "...depending on who is buying the F-35."
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

It depends on who owns the garden and how much the tomatoes cost.

If you are referring to entire countries, then what you stated is true. But if you break it down to the air forces and the supplier companies, then partner nations are actually shelling out more money than if they bought from the US.

If Japan pays $1.5 Million for an Aim-120 and $3 Million for an AAM-4, then JASDF pays $750 Million to Raytheon for 500 missiles or $1.5 Billion to Mitsubishi for the same. The choice here is really between affordability and supply guarantees. Even if "your" price is higher than what the USAF pays, it is still cheaper than the AAM-4.

Technically, Japan isn't saving money by paying more on "perishable goods," whether they make it in Japan or get it from the US. India will save a huge amount of money by getting the Rafales made in France, even though the aircraft are meant to be made in India, but affordability isn't high on the priority of the govt when it comes to acquiring cutting edge technologies. That's the same benefit that the Japanese are looking for. They basically plan to buy a lot of Aim-120s because it is more affordable, but at the same time they will buy the AAM-4s to support their indigenous industry because they know it is very important.

Basically what you are saying is it doesn't matter how much the tomatoes cost as long as the money stays in the country. If that's true, then you should have no problems if the unit cost of the F-35 is $500 Million. The money stays in the country, even though the money goes into Lockheed Martin's pockets. After all, it is their garden and their tomatoes.

All of the above is considering we are talking about Japan. Now, if the F-35 is to be made in Russia, but with Russian weapons, then the cheaper cost of the RVV-SD compared to the Aim-120 will definitely work in the Russians' favor. After all, you are only saving money when the cost of the "perishable goods" is lesser, regardless of whether the money is going into your own market or someone else's.

That's what I meant when I said, "...depending on who is buying the F-35."

My garden, plants purchased at a nursery, I have a well, I work "cheap", the Honey Badger says did you weed the garden? they answer better be yes, LOL.
 
Top