F-22 Raptor Thread

[Jura The idiot]

This newly released plan would require greater successive content to digest and understand what it actually means in developing future capabilities to dominate the air space post 2030. What is clear to me is that for some time I seen the emphasis moving away from a platform centric approach to effect centric in the form of networked battlespace capabilities. In other words, the notion of a 6th gen platform is dead in the waters and IMO is a correct strategic repositioning.

here's what FlightGlobal has to say:
USAF calls for a "penetrating counterair" study in 2017

The US military will lose air superiority by 2030 unless a host of new capabilities and sweeping changes to acquisition processes can be adopted and fielded within the next 14 years, including a new penetrating counter-air system, the US Air Force says in a newly-released strategy document.

The unclassified version of the “Air Superiority Flight Plan 2030” includes a harsh assessment of the USAF’s growing limitations against an array of future airpower threats. The USAF document does not name particular adversaries, but includes a picture of the Chinese AVIC J-20 stealth fighter to illustrate concerns about growing capabilities of potential adversaries.

With the Lockheed Martin F-35A, Northrop Grumman B-21 and Boeing KC-46 still in development, the Flight Plan also includes a damning critique of the US military’s acquisition system, calling for the service to reject pushing the limits of technology within a platform-based acquisition programme. Such platforms are put “at risk of cancellation due to their nearly inevitable under-performance and results in delivery of capabilities ‘late to need’ by years or even decades”, the Flight Plan says.

Instead, the strategy document, commissioned by the USAF chief of staff, calls for developing a portfolio of science and technology investments funded outside the parameters of a platform-based acquisition programme. As prototypes of those technologies are tested and matured, they can be transitioned into development.

The report adds context to recent proposals by the USAF to use alternative methods to develop and field a new kind of aircraft — often referred to as a sixth-generation fighter — to stay ahead of potential enemies after 2030. The report seems careful not to use conventional terms, such as fighter or bomber, to describe such an aircraft. Instead, it calls for developing a new “penetrating counter-air” (PCA) capability, among an array of new weapons, sensors and organisational changes.

The PCA concept suggests an aircraft that could enter and operate within hostile airspace protected by increasingly sophisticated air defence systems, including ground-based missiles and fighters. It “will certainly have a role in targeting and engaging [and] it also has a significant role as a node in the network, providing data from its penetrating sensors to enable employment using either stand-off or stand-in weapons”.

Since 2010, the USAF has performed an analysis of alternatives and further studies for a future sixth-generation fighter expected to replace the Lockheed F-22 after 2030. The new Flight Plan, however, indicates the USAF has shelved those plans to adopt a less conventional approach. It says the USAF “should proceed with a formal [analysis of alternatives] in 2017 for a PCA capability”.

source:

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[Air Force Brat]

here's what FlightGlobal has to say:
USAF calls for a "penetrating counterair" study in 2017

source:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

OK, we (the US, West) know whom our adversaries are likely to be, as you well know I have been "HIGHLY Critical" of what I have termed the "chickification" of the USAF. We now have a bunch of non-combatants, who likely have NO clue as to what it means to strap your very own little precious "butt" into an aircraft, any aircraft and take what could be a "ONE WAY" trip into territory, occupied by hostiles, into what will NO DOUBT be the most "NOXIOUS", anti air environment that the bad guys can conjure up and pay for.

NOW, lesson 1. Air Defenses are far cheaper and more effective dollar for dollar than any Air Penetration asset will or can be! 2.When the public thinks of air-power, they think "bomber", that is why the F-35 is more popular than the F-22. The "ground pounder" sees that GAU-8 and thinks "HOLY KRAP!", that's what I want flying overhead, it has been and remains, "very effective" in its intended role?

They look at the F-22 and what do they see??? nuthin!!!, look at the F-35 and what do they see, well quite a bit more than the F-22, and that's why those dress up pictures with all kinds of KRAAP! hangin off your airplane, impresses not only the general public, but all those Army and Marine grunts who do the real work. Why the incredibly goofy three, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bagdad Bob killed the F-22, the only real asset we have that will and has penetrated enemy air defenses, that and a few B-2s.

The F-22 does what it does with no muss, no fuss, quietly and efficiently, just as it should, but that doesn't sell airplanes, krap being blown to "smithereens" that sells airplanes, and the USAF doesn't understand how to sell that to the public and their politicians. We have all these chicks and other folks making rank, we have some of the real "top guns", getting caught with their "air defenses down", and being booted out of this very "politically correct" USAF environment. That will NOT WORK!

 

[Air Force Brat]

Question: In a real war against a peer or close peer. How would the 120 or so F-22 Raptors be deployed? Bring back to the homeland? Or would they be forward placed as squadrons of only F-22s or split up and placed with squadrons of 4th gen planes and used as force multipliers? *Here and away?*

Sorry about the war scenario question, I am just curious how they would be deployed in real life scenario right now.

Great question, and the answer is we are already in a "real war", and they will be deployed just as they are being deployed today, if a serious threat advances they will be "rotated into position" and do the job they are designed to do! We ARE IN A REAL WAR!, really think about that! We are in a real War, right now, and we are also engaged in a civil war with those who don't see our Defense as a high priority, the 47% ters are sucking the life out of this country, and really don't care, they don't work, or don't work any more, sadly many seniors on Soc Sec see themselves as "entitled" and they may be, but they better keep working and contributing, because they, like the "unborn"? are expendable to the modern liberal, who has no more problem with eliminating the elderly than they do the unborn. fact of life kids, we all get old, doesn't mean we need to sit back on our butt and let somebody else carry the load!

 

[dtulsa]

That's the 64 dollar question sir

 

[Air Force Brat]

That's the 64 dollar question sir

that's right DT, and some folks in the real world are finally waking up and realizing that we do NOT have enough F-22s, and that no, the F-35 will not "walk the chalk" when things go seriously UGLY? just won't, in spite of what smart folks say, the F-22 was always designed to be the HIGH, in HI/LO mix, and it does occupy and control the high-ground, and move about much the way a "queen" would on a chess board! DON'T LOSE your "Queen!"

 

[Jura The idiot]

... DON'T LOSE your "Queen!"

don't worry, bro, F-22 will be around for a long long time, because of the other New Generation Aircraft which is turning into such a ... phenomenal success

 

[dtulsa]

There are two scenarios I can think of. 1. Building more of the 22 and get rid of the stupid export restrictions and sell them to trusted allies. 2. There's something in the works that we don't know about not really likely.

 

[dtulsa]

This all comes back to my original statement that the 22 needs to be the primary aircraft with the 35 bringing up the rear so to speak we just need 300-500 of the 22 to do it with

 

[dtulsa]

Until it becomes their turn at being old and there's no more money left in the piggy bank.

 

[FORBIN]

Question: In a real war against a peer or close peer. How would the 120 or so F-22 Raptors be deployed? Bring back to the homeland? Or would they be forward placed as squadrons of only F-22s or split up and placed with squadrons of 4th gen planes and used as force multipliers? *Here and away?*
Sorry about the war scenario question, I am just curious how they would be deployed in real life scenario right now.

Mainly for stealth matter i don't think it is a good tactic mixed stealth and not coz even if the stealth is not detected the presence of a normal aircraft can draw attention to him, air strikes with stealth fighters and others with not, seems better