F-22 Raptor Thread

[Air Force Brat]

In History all weapons are tested, F-22 has not been tested yet, same is F-35, does not matter what you throw to each other only history will show who is right, but something i am sure of, is the US has started development of a better plane than F-22

The F-22 and F-35 likely have more flight test hours than any other two aircraft in history ace, the F-22 is the pinnacle of fighter aircraft. I have no doubt that you believe what will follow may be better than the F-22?? but I rather doubt that. The F-22 was developed and brought to production during the Reagan years, when we had lots of money and talent. That's why it is still the best, now we are slim pickings on talent and money?? (sequestration?) so there is absolutely NO guarantee that what comes next will be superior to the F-22, or for that matter even the F-35.

 

[b787]

The F-22 and F-35 likely have more flight test hours than any other two aircraft in history ace, the F-22 is the pinnacle of fighter aircraft. I have no doubt that you believe what will follow may be better than the F-22?? but I rather doubt that. The F-22 was developed and brought to production during the Reagan years, when we had lots of money and talent. That's why it is still the best, now we are slim pickings on talent and money?? (sequestration?) so there is absolutely NO guarantee that what comes next will be superior to the F-22, or for that matter even the F-35.

I will tell you my opinion upon what i have been seen these days on the news.

Russia has deployed S-400s and Su-35s and if the UAC information is right, the Su-30SM with AESAs in Syria, they are challenging the F-22.

Same China with the HQ-9, here is not important my or your opinion, all the sides are challenging each other.

As i see history, for example 1940, the AM-6M Zero was considered inferior but in 1941 no american fighter was better, not even land fighters.

In 1950, the MiG-15 surpassed all the american aircraft with the exception of one F-86.

In the 1980s i was a teenager, in 1986 i read a Magazine about MiG-29, most western books said the MiG-29 was a copycat and inferior to most western fighter, same Su-27.

By 2016 i know performance wise, no F-15, F-18, F-16 are a match to the MiG-29 or Su-27 in most parameters.

Only in avionics they can be matched.

The trial for F-22 has not yet arrived, the fighter never has been operated in a S-500/T-50 environment, neither on a J-20/HQ-9 one.

No one at this moment can assure it is king or beggar

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

No one is claiming that the F-22 is perfect of that the F-22 will not be surpassed eventually. What is your point though? Everyone stops developing and go back to Bi-planes?

Suddenly North Korea would be the cutting edge of technology.

 

[Brumby]

What is it

All radar issues ultimately revolve around signal to noise (S/N). RCS reduction has a corresponding reduction in power requirement for effective jamming. For example between an F-18 and a F-22, there is a >99 % reduction in RCS which means that an F-22 would require >99% less jamming power as the F-18 to achieve the same level of effectiveness and hence the VLO advantage. It should also be remembered that the APG-77 is IMO the pinnacle to-date of all fighter airborne AESA radar and its jamming power capability would be unmatched. The one probably come close to its capability is the APG-81 because the latter is built on probably higher quality T/R , layout and packaging technology besides being fully integrated to its EW.

Actually it's the other way around since you can't lock on to a target what you can't trace. The targeting radar is much stronger and is consecutive instead of a scanning radar which is sequential scanning the entire area once verified and tracked by scanning radar the coordinates are fed to into the targeting radar which fires a strong consecutive radar towards the target.

Realistically a stealth craft really doesn't need to be stealth from start to end where the opponent doesn't know what hit him. A stealth craft only needs to be stealth long enough so the stealth craft is able get close enough to shoot his opponent first. The stealth craft can be spotted at this point since he will be breaking away and more importantly the opponent would not have time dicking around trying to obtain a firing solution against the stealth plane since they would be preoccupied trying to gain a firing solution against the missile heading right towards them.

Actually we are talking of the same sequence i.e. detect, track, and lock. Once you are able to track the minimum firing conditions are met except that the quality of the track is suspect. What may happen as in this F-22 example, the Chinese if it gets this far will attempt to switch to Single Target Tracking (STT) whereby separate semi-independent tracking loops are established. At this stage they will attempt to run range gate matching and constant false-alarm rate (CFAR) algorithms to reduce tracking error because at the other end, the F-22 will be injecting false signals and attempts at range gate stealing to increase tracking error. Having said that, I don't believe the Chinese would have got this far simply because the AN/ALR-94 on the F-22 would have detected Chinese emission from >400 kms away. If the F-22 don't want to be tracked, I don't believe the Chinese would have any chance of tracking it given the combination of the F-22's RCS profile and its powerful radar. Any such claims by the Chinese is simply delusional in my view.

 

[Brumby]

I the Su-30SM with AESAs in Syria, they are challenging the F-22.

This is the first time I have heard that the Russians have a working AESA. Do you have a source for this?

 

[Jeff Head]

Jokes aside. The article appears to be two distinct subject stringed into a story. There is no credible content from the story as to what was detected. That would be consistent with the capabilities of early warning radar. It is then assumed that it could be a F-22. That is simply speculation. The main problem I have with the story is the loose interchange in usage between detection and tracking. They are miles apart in meaning and if they were able to track, the contents of the story would be significantly different.

Exactly.

Sensational claims based on vapor.

At least this is my opinion.

 

[b787]

This is the first time I have heard that the Russians have a working AESA. Do you have a source for this?

PJSC “Irkut Corporation” as the main contractor of state defence order provides serial production of Su-30SM highly maneuverable multirole fighters. The aircraft was developed by Sukhoi Design Bureau and is produced at the Irkutsk Aviation Plant – branch of PJSC “Irkut Corporation”.

The Su-30SM two-seat fighter is supermaneuverable, equipped with active phased array radar, thrust vectoring engines and canard surfaces.

The fighter can use modern and advanced precise air-to-air and air-to-surface armament.

The aircraft can be used to train the pilots for advanced multirole supermaneuverable single-seat fighters.

The Su-30SM multirole fighter is the further development of the Su-30MK combat aircraft family. The fighter was designed in accordance with the requirements of the Russian Air Force in terms of radar system, radio and recognition system, weapon structure, ejection seats and a number support systems.

The first contracts for delivery of Su-30SM fighters were concluded by the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation and JSC “Irkut Corporation” in 2012. It has been delivering the aircraft since December 2012. Data on the SU-30SM performance is not disclosed, as the aircraft is delivered for the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation

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the source is official, it is United Aircraft Corporation

 

[Brumby]

the source is official, it is United Aircraft Corporation

I believe the reference is to the N-011M Bars radar. It is supposedly a hybrid design between Passive ESAs (PESA) and contemporary AESAs. The N011M is different from the N011 in that the N011 is mechanical scanning while the former features a phased array antenna. It is not true AESA because the receive path uses AESA technology but, the transmit uses a Travelling Wave Tube and backplane waveguide feed.

 

[b787]

I believe the reference is to the N-011M Bars radar. It is supposedly a hybrid design between Passive ESAs (PESA) and contemporary AESAs. The N011M is different from the N011 in that the N011 is mechanical scanning while the former features a phased array antenna. It is not true AESA because the receive path uses AESA technology but, the transmit uses a Travelling Wave Tube and backplane waveguide feed.

show me a picture or video of its radar, you won`t have it, the radar type has not been disclosed, UAC says is an AESA, only that, no description or mention of what model

 

[Brumby]

show me a picture or video of its radar, you won`t have it, the radar type has not been disclosed, UAC says is an AESA, only that, no description or mention of what model

The information on the N-011M Bars radar is known in the public arena and the facts that I described is generally not disputed. You can certainly argue that the UAC is referring to a secretive full fledge AESA that somehow had magically appeared and introduced into service. There is no corroborating evidence that such a Russian AESA exist and if you have feel free to share it.

Btw, the announcement only mentioned that the Su-30SM two-seat fighter is equipped with active phased array radar. You are making the jump in concluding that it is AESA. It is factually true that the N-011M features a phased array antenna.