Europe Refugee Crisis

Bathers watch refugees from Syria arrive from Turkey by dinghy on the coast of Mytilini on the Greek island of Lesvos
Picture: EPA/ORESTIS PANAGIOTOU



A young boy wraps up to keep warm as migrants wake up to a cold morning at the Hungarian border with Serbia in Roszke, Hungary
Picture: Christopher Furlong/Getty Images



A man puts his hand on a board showing pictures of refugees outside of the EU headquarters in Brussels
Picture: Virginia Mayo/AP


Back to bottling my Grenache

Scratch said:

While numbers wise immensely more impressive than what we see today, I dare argue that it generally is easier to accept / integrate large amounts of people that, more or less, speak your language and are already very accustomed to your own daily way of life.

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I can go on, but that will be off tangent to another level that is obvious and unnecessary.

To stem the flood of Syrian refugees into their countries, Europeans have found a solution: keep Syrian President Bashar Assad in power

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Scratch said:

While numbers wise immensely more impressive than what we see today, I dare argue that it generally is easier to accept / integrate large amounts of people that, more or less, speak your language and are already very accustomed to your own daily way of life.
Similar to how the german occupied zones ingested about 12 million people after WW II. That is often used as an example these days for way todays challange is not a real problem. I think, however, that it is a dishonest statement; for the reasons above.

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I would say people who are threatened by different cultures are not very secure about their own culture. If the immigrants are willing to obey local laws, then there should not be any problem. Integrating new cultures is how societies progress.

If certain elements of those immigrants are not willing to obey the laws of their adopted land, then they should simply be prosecuted and punished in the same way anyone else in that land would be.

solarz said:

I would say people who are threatened by different cultures are not very secure about their own culture. If the immigrants are willing to obey local laws, then there should not be any problem. Integrating new cultures is how societies progress.

If certain elements of those immigrants are not willing to obey the laws of their adopted land, then they should simply be prosecuted and punished in the same way anyone else in that land would be.

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Thereby lies the fundamental issue. I agree with your assessment on paper however when you have a very large wave of immigrants, laws and policies can change. If 50 immigrants come sure most likely they will conform to local laws and assimilate easily however if 100k comes in overnight and they basically outnumber native residents then things are not that simple.

kwaigonegin said:

Thereby lies the fundamental issue. I agree with your assessment on paper however when you have a very large wave of immigrants, laws and policies can change. If 50 immigrants come sure most likely they will conform to local laws and assimilate easily however if 100k comes in overnight and they basically outnumber native residents then things are not that simple.

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That's why we have a constitution, to make sure that no matter what the majority thinks, the laws of the land will always respect certain basic principles.

solarz said:

I would say people who are threatened by different cultures are not very secure about their own culture. If the immigrants are willing to obey local laws, then there should not be any problem. Integrating new cultures is how societies progress.

If certain elements of those immigrants are not willing to obey the laws of their adopted land, then they should simply be prosecuted and punished in the same way anyone else in that land would be.

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The biggest challenge with immigration seems to be the ability and willingness of arrivals to assimilate to their new home. Problems occur when local language is not adopted and the immigrants isolate themselves, becoming partitioned from larger society. It creates misunderstanding and resentments between all parties. Government needs to do it's part to offer services and education to promote community integration, but it's on those arrivals to break out of their shell and become a part of their new home. As much a study of human nature as anything else.

Scratch said:

people that, more or less, speak your language and are already very accustomed to your own daily way of life.

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Anecdote:
One of the Belgian refugees was in my first two years in secondary school my teacher French and he told us that he had lived with his parents in Antwerp and only spoke French. In his youth he was afraid of a Flemish insurrection during which he would be called upon to pronounce the word "schild" where the "ch" is a Dutch sound that is strange to the French language. During an insurrection in the Middle Ages those unable to speak the word were then killed.

Zool said:

The biggest challenge with immigration seems to be the ability and willingness of arrivals to assimilate to their new home. Problems occur when local language is not adopted and the immigrants isolate themselves, becoming partitioned from larger society. It creates misunderstanding and resentments between all parties. Government needs to do it's part to offer services and education to promote community integration, but it's on those arrivals to break out of their shell and become a part of their new home. As much a study of human nature as anything else.

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An experience in the Netherlands: When the Dutch attempt to reconquer Indonesia was defeated ( 1949 ) many people from the Moluccas, an archipelago where many soldiers for the Dutch colonial army had been recruited, i.c. those soldiers and their wives and children who were nearly all Christians, were "repatriated" to the Netherlands and stored in camps. This led in 1976 to the highjacking of a train in the Netherlands by members of this community that were mostly or wholly ( I don't know exactly ) born in the Netherlands. Only after this episode made the Dutch government the effort to integrate these people.

Zool said:

The biggest challenge with immigration seems to be the ability and willingness of arrivals to assimilate to their new home. Problems occur when local language is not adopted and the immigrants isolate themselves, becoming partitioned from larger society. It creates misunderstanding and resentments between all parties. Government needs to do it's part to offer services and education to promote community integration, but it's on those arrivals to break out of their shell and become a part of their new home. As much a study of human nature as anything else.

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Eveything takes time. Look at U.S with all the ethnic enclaves in almost every major cities. It usually take 1-2 generations for the immigrants to fully assimilate into the American society.