EU Navy Combined Fleet: Views & News

Thread on the European Navy and what it's combined strength would look like, and any news, videos, photos, and discussions about it.


This thread is reserved for news and discussions regarding how these various nations vessels would operate together. News, discussions, pictures and videos regarding Joint European Naval exercises or operations, news and discussions regarding how thir communications, armaments, and sensors could combined and operate together, or any news about combining policy and procedure, cross decking, etc. between different European nations naval forces.

Any news and discussion regarding the individsual nations or their class vessels apart from combined European focus should be done on

Re: Another 'water is wet' story

We often speak of the various Navy's of the world and track news related to them right here on SD. In doing so it is clear that the US Navy is, at this point, by far and away the most powerful naval forcce on earth, and that the PLAN is rapidly growing towards a second position in that regard. In contemplating this, we seldom consider any individual European Navy as powerful enough to be considered in the same league in terms of overall power or stength.

However, the European countries are also joined by a economic pact in the Eurpoean Union, and many of them are also united by a strong military pact in NATO, which begs the question: What type of Navy could a united Europe field if it ever had to?

The answer is a very impressive one.

In looking at this, I include the following countries in a united European Navy (there are others, but their contribution would be relatively light) :

United Kingdon, France, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Greece, Belgium, and Poland.


Here is a summary of the resulting combined strength of the major combatants:

AIRCRAFT CARRIERS:

1 x France CVN
2 x UK CV
1 x Italy CV
1 x Italy CVL

5 Aircraft Carriers in total

MULTI-ROLE LANDING PLATFORMS:

1 x Spain LHA
3 x France LHD
2 x UK LHP
3 x Itlay LHD

9 Landing Platforms in total.

GUIDED-MISSILE DESTROYERS (DDG):

12 x France
07 x Italy
06 x UK
05 x Spain
05 x Denmark
05 x Norway
04 x Germany
04 x Netherladns

Forty-nine DDGs in total.

GUIDED-MISSILE FRIGATES (FFG):

14 x Germany
13 x UK
12 x Greece
12 x Portugal
11 x France
11 x Italy
06 x Spain
04 x Denmark
02 x Netherladns
02 x Belgium
02 x Poland

Eighty-nine FFGs in total.

NUCLEAR ATTACK SUBMARINES (SSN):

8 a UK
6 x France

14 nuclear attack submarines in total.

DIESEL/ELECTRIC SUBMARINES (SSK):

9 x Greece
6 x Norway
6 x italy
5 x Sweden
4 x Germany
4 x Netherlands
3 x Spain
2 x Portugal
2 x Poland

Forty-one SSKs in total.

This does not include the strategic ballistic nuclear submarines of the UK and France, or the many smaller Amphibious, patrol, mine, or auxillary vessels. Just these major combatants which adds up to a very powerful and significant fleet.

215 major combatants in total.


This thread is reserved for news and discussions regarding how these various nations vessels would operate together. News, discussions, pictures and videos regarding Joint European Naval exercises or operations, news and discussions regarding how thir communications, armaments, and sensors could combined and operate together, or any news about combining policy and procedure, cross decking, etc. between different European nations naval forces.

Any news and discussion regarding the individsual nations or their class vessels apart from combined European focus should be done on

To be technically correct the UK has the following as of 2014

2 x LPH (HMS Ocean and HMS Illustrious)

2 x LPD (HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion)

HMS Illustrious is due to be decommissioned this year and by 2020 HMS Ocean will have reached end of her life

If replaced UK will have 2 x CVs and 1 x LPH or if not replaced which is likely the case then just two x CV

Also as of 2014 there is 2 x Astute Class and 5 x Trafalgar Class SSN to give 7 x SSN the last 5 Trafalgar Class will be replaced with all new Astutes

So to summarise the future force of the RN is going to be

2 x CV
6 x DDG
13 x FFG
7 x SSN
4 x SSBN

There will be an amphibious assault unit for 42 commando Royal Marines most likely LPD not LHP hard to justify another flat top once two QE are commissioned

Plus Royal Auxiliary Fleet

also France has 4 SSBN so total SSBN is 8 if you add in UK

Jeff, thank you for informing me about this thread; I wonder if maybe some combined European Task Force should be organized and be on standby? would consist of one carrier with escorts and one amphib ... what do you think?

Jura said:

Jeff, thank you for informing me about this thread; I wonder if maybe some combined European Task Force should be organized and be on standby? would consist of one carrier with escorts and one amphib ... what do you think?

Click to expand...

Well, short of a direct threat, I doubt the EU could do such a thing at this point.

But NATO has a couple of Naval Squadrons it keeps active at all times.

One used to be called, "Standing Naval Force Atlantic" (STANAVFORLANT), but this name was changed to Standing NATO Maritime Group One (SNMG1), and usually consists of six destroyers and frigates from member countries.

There is also a Standing NATO Maritime Group Two (SNMG2), which used t be called, "Standing Naval Force Mediterranean" (STANAVFORMED). It too has six vessels made up of destroyers and frigates.

Command of these groups rotates between member nations. If I am not mistaken, NATO also operates a couple of standing mine countermeasure forces too.

Here is a picture of Standing NATO Maritime Group One from 2012 in Company with US Carrier Strike Group 12.

Jeff Head said:

Well, short of a direct threat, I doubt the EU could do such a thing at this point.

...

Click to expand...

yeah enough carriers would have to be built first, so, per my request
the Royal Navy: get the third unit of Queen Elizabeth-class
Marine nationale: get PA2 and think of PA3 (three carriers would be needed so that one can constantly operate in the Atlantic and one in the Med)
Marina Militare: get additional Cavour
Koninklijke Marine: you should get a carrier after half-century long break!

P.S. I hope I won't be considered a warmonger after this!

There is no prospect of the Dutch navy even owning a flattop in the future. Karel Doorman was too expensive at the time. I once was aboard her half a century ago in the port of Rotterdam.
The Netherlands had a yard to build its own submarines which was also equipped to produce pressure vessels for nuclear power stations. No such pressure vessel was ever produced. The last two exported submarines were sold to Taiwan in the late '80's and this proved to be too expensive even then when the Chinese economy was but a fraction of what it is now. The four submarines now serving with the Dutch navy were delivered from 1990 to '94 and the yard is now closed. Because of that and because of the excessive costs of buying and maintaining 37 F-35A's it is very unlikely that these submarines will be replaced. The Dutch army already ended the use of tanks.

delft said:

There is no prospect of the Dutch navy even owning a flattop in the future. Karel Doorman was too expensive at the time. I once was aboard her half a century ago in the port of Rotterdam.

Click to expand...

must have been cool, I guess you were a young boy at that time

delft said:

The Netherlands had a yard to build its own submarines which was also equipped to produce pressure vessels for nuclear power stations. No such pressure vessel was ever produced. The last two exported submarines were sold to Taiwan in the late '80's and this proved to be too expensive even then when the Chinese economy was but a fraction of what it is now. The four submarines now serving with the Dutch navy were delivered from 1990 to '94 and the yard is now closed. Because of that and because of the excessive costs of buying and maintaining 37 F-35A's it is very unlikely that these submarines will be replaced. The Dutch army already ended the use of tanks.

Click to expand...

once upon a time, the Dutch empire stretched from New York through Cape Town to Jakarta LOL

then they made the call of trading New Amsterdam (New York) for Suriname, It all went downhill from there.

One of the Trends I think we should bare in mind is that for the last Quarter of a Century western Europe has not had any indications of moving to fight western Europe. the Blood lettings of the Two World wars and the End of the cold war seem to have driven the urge to fight nation to nation from the Flanders Fields to the floors of Embassies and the floor of the European parliament.
This is a good trend In my opinion, It also means that smaller nations don't need as powerful a military as they used to. The big players back them not conquer them.
This trend in my opinion will in my opinion lead to a Euro centric NATO, This would in essence more of less merge NATO and the EU.This is long term but it's a trend I think is inevitable unless a huge Geopolitical shift happens.
As it stands today EU nato could be viewed as having the second largest Navy in the World.
With Three Active Carrier groups and additional Two Pending, and additional 9 Expeditionary Combat groups. that's a potent force. And as things move forward It's likely to expand. Particularly as the EU expands it's interests.

Jura said:

yeah enough carriers would have to be built first, so, per my request
the Royal Navy: get the third unit of Queen Elizabeth-class
Marine nationale: get PA2 and think of PA3 (three carriers would be needed so that one can constantly operate in the Atlantic and one in the Med)
Marina Militare: get additional Cavour

Click to expand...

I believe with the five carrier groups the EU will have, that they are in good shape. That measn three available at any time, and lots of time four available if they work their maintenance schedules right and do some joint planning.

Then, with up to nine expeditionary forces, they will be in good shape, with far more than enough surface and submarine vessels to escort them...and plenty left over for all sorts of other individual, and surface action groups.

If they coordinated their activities, the combined EU navy would be a very potent force.