EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

It's probably too late anyway. What's the point of dropping it when the only thing they can offer China is the best stuff.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

I'm guessing there still would be business to be made when it comes to co-development of new equipment. It's a nice way of sharing just a fraction of technology and get information on the counterparts' abilities plus new technology in return.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

Maggern said:

Many European leaders were in favour of lifting the embargo back in the day, with the French and German leaders leading on, and even getting the Brits on board. If all those combined efforts could not lift the embargo, it's surely not happening in today's European political climate.

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Yip, I think the Chinese stuffed that one up themselves, and it was their best chance. But to come out and say they reserved the right to retake Taiwan by force if necessary, weeks out from when the EU were gonna make a decision, was stupid.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

bladerunner said:

Same old stuff again, Ho Hum ZZzzzzzzz More mixed messages about nothing. I cant see the arms embargo being lifted with Merkel being relected

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Merkel is known for being negatively biased against China: she did e.g. compare the PRC in public with her ´former´ home country GDR (East Germany, reunified with West Germany in 1990). (...very fitting comparison , just like equating Romania with the US only for being both in the same ´western camp´.)

Some rumors were actually floating around in Berlin that Merkel in private drew parallels between PRC and Nazi Germany depicting China as the most dangerous peril for ´freedom and democracy´ in the 21st century. Obviously any of Washington's grey eminences can be certainly very proud about their obedient German chancellor puppet...:rofl:

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

Violet Oboe said:

Merkel is known for being negatively biased against China: she did e.g. compare the PRC in public with her ´former´ home country GDR (East Germany, reunified with West Germany in 1990). (...very fitting comparison , just like equating Romania with the US only for being both in the same ´western camp´.)

Some rumors were actually floating around in Berlin that Merkel in private drew parallels between PRC and Nazi Germany depicting China as the most dangerous peril for ´freedom and democracy´ in the 21st century. Obviously any of Washington's grey eminences can be certainly very proud about their obedient German chancellor puppet...:rofl:

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Exactly my thoughts. These leaders from the ex Soviet bloc are zealots for democracy, a bit like born again christians, whoops. With the Czechs, Poles, in the EU as well its going be like pushing the probverbial uphill.

However it would have been nice to get some jet engines, a bit of composite material tech prhaps

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

bladerunner said:

Yip, I think the Chinese stuffed that one up themselves, and it was their best chance. But to come out and say they reserved the right to retake Taiwan by force if necessary, weeks out from when the EU were gonna make a decision, was stupid.

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I think this was simply a pretext for the Europeans. When Bush invaded Iraq over their objections, they played the 'China card' on him, and by the start of his second term the Americans were forced to overhaul their policy: "The time for diplomacy is now" said Condoleeza Rice and off she went to Europe at the start of 2005. What came out of this 'diplomacy', as I see it, is that Bush agreed to work with the Europeans on the matter of Iran (hence P5 + 1), and the Europeans agreed to work with the US on China. At first, it was the embargo, but this coordination between the two has grown even to matters of Tibet, Africa, trade, etc. I think some other pretext would have been found if that one had not been provided.

On the other hand, four years one, the success of the Chinese policy regarding Taiwan is worth much much more than pleasing the Europeans.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

Red Moon said:

I think this was simply a pretext for the Europeans. When Bush invaded Iraq over their objections, they played the 'China card' on him, and by the start of his second term the Americans were forced to overhaul their policy: "The time for diplomacy is now" said Condoleeza Rice and off she went to Europe at the start of 2005. What came out of this 'diplomacy', as I see it, is that Bush agreed to work with the Europeans on the matter of Iran (hence P5 + 1), and the Europeans agreed to work with the US on China. At first, it was the embargo, but this coordination between the two has grown even to matters of Tibet, Africa, trade, etc. I think some other pretext would have been found if that one had not been provided.

On the other hand, four years one, the success of the Chinese policy regarding Taiwan is worth much much more than pleasing the Europeans.

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Thats a very good opinion, I certainly never considered it that way

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

Of course. Making a statement about taking Taiwan by force wasn't the reason. It was an excuse.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

I think in nearly all areas, China has little to gain from weapons-related trade with Europeans.

The only arms Europe has that China does not have and will not have in the near future are the very cutting edge ones. Obviously, the Europeans will not be selling those to China.

While there are some items like diesel engines where even export goods from Europe have a good lead over domestic systems, these items are lesser and lesser in number. Especially so now that China appears to be finally be able to mass produce its own turbojet / turbine family.

Maybe China would like to take a good look at Charles de Gaulle.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

Roger604 said:

I think in nearly all areas, China has little to gain from weapons-related trade with Europeans.

The only arms Europe has that China does not have and will not have in the near future are the very cutting edge ones. Obviously, the Europeans will not be selling those to China.

While there are some items like diesel engines where even export goods from Europe have a good lead over domestic systems, these items are lesser and lesser in number. Especially so now that China appears to be finally be able to mass produce its own turbojet / turbine family.

Maybe China would like to take a good look at Charles de Gaulle.

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Diesel-wise China pretty much can do all things indigenously, the only significant powerplant issue is the gas turbine tech, of which with major investment in resources and development shouldn't be a problem for too much longer. Access to Euro tech works best on projects like military use of Airbus or Eurocopter designs, for example, as well as easier access to sub-system suppliers.