EU Considers Lifting China Arms Embargo

Re: EU-China arms embargo won't be lifted anytime soon

tphuang said:

look, I answered your question plenty. I gave a list of items that I think China would be interested from the Europeans.

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Well your first post was slightly confusing because you listed things that, as you said in it, China can already get. If you had indicated which were prohibited it would have been more helpful. But still thanks for replying. And, yes, the posts following on from my last one have been very helpful. Thanks to everyone for their responses.

That said I was interested in the specific provisions of the embargo documents. If no one knows what they are then that's ok - I was just curious.

Now, if you don't have any respect for China's defense industry, that's your own problem.

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Well that's a very strange statement to make. I haven't made a single comment on China's indigenous defence industry. I think you're being unnecessarily defensive.

Re: EU-China arms embargo won't be lifted anytime soon

FuManChu said:

Well your first post was slightly confusing because you listed things that, as you said in it, China can already get. If you had indicated which were prohibited it would have been more helpful. But still thanks for replying. And, yes, the posts following on from my last one have been very helpful. Thanks to everyone for their responses.

That said I was interested in the specific provisions of the embargo documents. If no one knows what they are then that's ok - I was just curious.



Well that's a very strange statement to make. I haven't made a single comment on China's indigenous defence industry. I think you're being unnecessarily defensive.

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I clearly listed which ones China has access to right now and which ones it will have access to if the embargo is lifted. And frankly, the difference is not overwhelming.

The provision under the embargo is that no company can export complete systems to China. However, the embargo is interpreted differently by different countries. The French tend to be the most liberal and the Brits actually exported quite a lot of stuff too. But then again, the Brits are under pressure from the Americans to not export anything advanced to China, so even if the embargo is lifted, it would not make that much diffference. The countries it would likely affect are the French and the Italians most likely.

Re: EU-China arms embargo won't be lifted anytime soon

tphuang said:

I clearly listed which ones China has access to right now and which ones it will have access to if the embargo is lifted.

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Oh, sorry I see that now. Apologies for the mixup and general failure to read properly.

how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

I assume that it must have limited the pace of the PLA's modernization by some extent, but specifically, I have no idea what is the technology gap vis a vis US, the EU, and China, also, given the rate at which the PLA has been advancing technologically, is the embargo really that serious?

any comment, tip, insight would be enlightening!

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

No much, I have to say.
All it did was put a halt to the existing projects and force China to by from other sources, such as Russia, Isreal, South Africa, and Canada.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

Certainly didn't stop European technology, such as diesel engines for tanks, subs and surface warships.

Neither did the embargo even stop Great Britain from shipping the remaining Spey engines to China, made into JH-7s. That one was even under Tony Blair's watch.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

the embargo is only window dressing and they know that.Even if China can not acquire military hardware she bought lots of other military stuff that is important for PLA

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

In what weapon, guidance, tracking systems can you say they match the west in. At best its probably cost them a generation in systems.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

escobar said:

the embargo is only window dressing and they know that.

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Hardly. Just because China can buy items like conventional engines doesn't mean the restrictions on other systems and components aren't significant.

Is the embargo effective? How do you measure whether that is the case or not? I would say whether the embargo restricts sales of items (of a decent quality) it cannot buy elsewhere.

Re: how effective is the EU Arms Embargo for the PLA?

China can still buy dual-use technology. Just ship it to non sanctioned nations and then re export to China. Also most private companies selling these technologies care more about contracts then making sure it does not go to third party nations.