East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Re: First US incursion in new chinese ADIZ: no reaction from china

Schumacher said:

Good grief, with the b52 flying near the edge of the zone, they would be long gone by the time pla jets got there unless you want to chase them out into the pacific just for photos.
It's a political show for the US, not for China, they have clear goals in mind.
Let's hope US continues with this show. Any drop of jet fuel they use for show is one less for real military stuffs.
I doubt pla will play this game as long they stay out there and dont see them flying any nearer anytime soon.

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Well radioing the B52s and warning them that they have entered China's ADIZ and asking they identify themselves would have cost nothing, but even that was not done.

Yes, the western media is in spin overload mode to make this minor story seem headline worthy, but the PLA did not half help by not challenging the B52s at all.

Since China declared the ADIZ, the PLA should have been expecting the Americans to test them and had all sorts of contingencies in place. There is no getting around the fact that the Americans breached China's ADIZ and nothing happened no matter no slight the breach might have been.

I think that the US military was very deliberate in its flight path planning so as to only brush China's ADIZ, maybe even very briefly, so as to ensure it did not trigger a PLAAF scramble so they can parade that as some sort of proof that they had the balls to call China's 'bluff'. But I think the PLA screwed up by not even trying to get those B52s on the radio to issue a warning and demand they ID themselves.

Imagine if they had radioed a warning as soon as the B52s breached the ADIZ. Then they would have some ammunition to play the spin game and put something out like,'we got those B52s on the radio, warning them that they had entered China's ADIZ and asked them to identify themselves and XX minutes later they left the ADIZ". That could have been spun as the Us backing off after being warned that they had entered China's ADIZ.

I think China really need to start paying more attention to how the media game is played. Having the best spin doctors and mouthpieces won't be enough if you give them nothing to work with.

Re: First US incursion in new chinese ADIZ: no reaction from china

plawolf said:

Well radioing the B52s and warning them that they have entered China's ADIZ and asking they identify themselves would have cost nothing, but even that was not done.

Yes, the western media is in spin overload mode to make this minor story seem headline worthy, but the PLA did not half help by not challenging the B52s at all.

Since China declared the ADIZ, the PLA should have been expecting the Americans to test them and had all sorts of contingencies in place. There is no getting around the fact that the Americans breached China's ADIZ and nothing happened no matter no slight .......

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Maybe they should've radioed, maybe not. I doubt it would make much difference. the western media already decided how to spin it ignoring even vital facts like the flight path.
Do u think simple things like radio can stop the spin masters ? they'll just talk about the lack of intercept then.
The US saw it as important enough to fly 2 b52 from Guam for this stunt, short of firing, it's hard to stop them from getting the spin they want.
Obviously, PLA was focused on the threat level of the incident at the time and not on how to spin. I agree they got their priority right.

Re: First US incursion in new chinese ADIZ: no reaction from china

plawolf said:

Having the best spin doctors and mouthpieces won't be enough if you give them nothing to work with.

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That's kind of funny, since it seems like spinning a story from nothing is exactly what's happening. (Referring to the talk about China's inaction.)

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

What they don't report on the major news outlets ain't "news" or "truth" to their recipients, and that's usually good enough because that portion of the public usually take in whatever being fed to them without digesting it.

In any case, we shall see how this plays out, for now what I am interested is how it'd play out for the Aussies, who geographically have nothing to do in this yet so nosy in calling in Chinese ambassador to protest about it. Also, the Japanese now call upon everyone to ignore the Chinese ADIZ, which with an underlined tone to escalate the situation further...Since it's obviously with US blessing, there're still more prospects to get worse before it gets better.

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

This is why China did not do anything about B52's entering China ADIZ!



Laugh the West Media made a big deal!

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Hi, I believe China not reacting to the B52s was a wise move but it did came across to the public as weak. The fact was the B52 were flying in both China & Japan ADIZ which overlap.

The question is what will happen when both Chinese & Japanese military planes fly in the overlapped ADIZ?

China really throw a spanner in the works for Japan this time.

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

It is just a pantomime from the media at the moment (it is after all nearly that time of year)

Ohh look behind you - the evil Chicoms have done .......... SOMETHING.....!! (audience BOOOO!!!)

But look our plucky bombers have gone in and and flown the flag........."HOORAY!!!!!

Which is about it really.

The Result?

The ADIZ is still set up and having made the obligatory opening rude noises, media attention will move on and daily life for the world will continue.
Japan is I think going to have problems trying to justify telling its Airliners to (effectively) ignore Chinese Air Traffic Control. Clearly the Tokyo/Shanghai shuttle will pass through the zone and need to file a path irrespective. I suspect that lateral transit routes will simply fly a bit further to the east and avoid the zone altogether. A bit ironic if that turns out to be so as then all Abe will have achieved is enforce a No Fly Zone on behalf of Beijing.

The truth is that most Airlines will probably be glad to know that there is another part of the sea where ATC will be watching and available to help if necessary. No surprise that all others seem to be complying with the new requirements and have no problem with doing so.

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

SampanViking said:

Japan is I think going to have problems trying to justify telling its Airliners to (effectively) ignore Chinese Air Traffic Control. Clearly the Tokyo/Shanghai shuttle will pass through the zone and need to file a path irrespective. I suspect that lateral transit routes will simply fly a bit further to the east and avoid the zone altogether. A bit ironic if that turns out to be so as then all Abe will have achieved is enforce a No Fly Zone on behalf of Beijing.

The truth is that most Airlines will probably be glad to know that there is another part of the sea where ATC will be watching and available to help if necessary. No surprise that all others seem to be complying with the new requirements and have no problem with doing so.

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Yeah, for most people the concern is that how it'd affect their flight to/from Japan by Japanese carriers like JAL and ANA, such as how many more minutes to be added, further fuel surcharge or something like that. So I kinda wonder how many air traffic corridors this new ADIZ covers?

Sure, for all other carriers who filed their flight routes it won't affect them, but if JAL and ANA need to keep in line with their national policy the extra cost to incur might eat into their profit margin.

Personally I do like JAL, even their bargain-basement flight to/from Tokyo Narita airport are just as on-time, and in-flight meal is about the best I've try thus far...

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

My opinion is China could have made better use of PR strategy by adopting the evolutionary approach rather than revolutionary one. Break big change into small incremental changes overtime so it does not become so noticeable in the short run and lbuy time for the world to get used to. From then slowly expand the boundary. What we have is a situation that for the past few decades, China does nothing as far as ADIZ was concern and all of a sudden, drop a bombshell. It only put China on a defensive on international PR front.

Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Japanese fighters and a patrol plane followed on Nov. 28.