Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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escobar

escobar

Brigadier
voyager1 said:
Nah its just bravado from the US. Everyone knows that they have a weak hand to play and they just want to appear strong, for example, yesterday when they said that China had to fix its relationship with Australia lol, and all these quad meetings and aggressive statements.

Do you see China behaving like this? There is no reason because it is confident and they know that the US is in a weak position now
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US sanction are bravado, Really? Ask NK, Venezuela and Iran. CN can't behave like that because CN can't hit back. When it is against weaker countries CN behave exactly like that. The QUAD is just beginning. We will see how it evovle.
 
V

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
escobar said:
US sanction are bravado, Really? Ask NK, Venezuela and Iran. CN can't behave like that because CN can't hit back. When it is against weaker countries CN behave exactly like that. The QUAD is just beginning. We will see how it evovle.
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And what did the sanctions accomplished in China?
They only helped Chinese private sector realise that the US is an unreliable business partner and now everyone and their mother are ripping out US components and where this is not possible they are heavily in R&D to replace them. Come back in 5 years tops and tell me where these mythical US sanctions fundamentally harmed China.

Xi probably opened a champagne to celebrate these tech sanctions. Do you really think that the Chinese gov wasnt aware of their weaknesses?
They tried many times to address some of these but they didn't achieve much and the reason was that the Chinese companies were worshipping western technology and that they drunk the globalisation kool-aid.


And what of the Quad, the qual already started functioning properly last year and it didn't matter anyways, did you see the PLA retreating from the Indian side? Did you see that China got scared and removed their sanctions against Australia. Do you think that China got scared from Japan regarding the islands, I suppose you noticed the new coast guard law which allows the chinese coast gurd ships to fire (aimed at Japan and other SCS claimants)?

And what happened in the first official high-stakes meeting of the Quad? It was basically India milking the rest of the Quad for money to produce vaccines. Did you see anything about military, anything for major diplomatic pact or something else except for empty statements like "Free Into-Pacific trade, rules based order", etc?

IMO the Quad is a tool that India, Australia, Japan will use as a leverage when they individually go to negotiate with China. They dont want to cut economic relations with China so it will mostly remain on the realm of empty and strong statements with no material imlact
 
hashtagpls

hashtagpls

Senior Member
Registered Member
voyager1 said:
And what did the sanctions accomplished in China?
They only helped Chinese private sector realise that the US is an unreliable business partner and now everyone and their mother are ripping out US components and where this is not possible they are heavily in R&D to replace them. Come back in 5 years tops and tell me where these mythical US sanctions fundamentally harmed China.

Xi probably opened a champagne to celebrate these tech sanctions. Do you really think that the Chinese gov wasnt aware of their weaknesses?
They tried many times to address some of these but they didn't achieve much and the reason was that the Chinese companies were worshipping western technology and that they drunk the globalisation kool-aid.


And what of the Quad, the qual already started functioning properly last year and it didn't matter anyways, did you see the PLA retreating from the Indian side? Did you see that China got scared and removed their sanctions against Australia. Do you think that China got scared from Japan regarding the islands, I suppose you noticed the new coast guard law which allows the chinese coast gurd ships to fire (aimed at Japan and other SCS claimants)?

And what happened in the first official high-stakes meeting of the Quad? It was basically India milking the rest of the Quad for money to produce vaccines. Did you see anything about military, anything for major diplomatic pact or something else except for empty statements like "Free Into-Pacific trade, rules based order", etc?

IMO the Quad is a tool that India, Australia, Japan will use as a leverage when they individually go to negotiate with China. They dont want to cut economic relations with China so it will mostly remain on the realm of empty and strong statements with no material imlact
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China's strategy against the Quad is sound: attacking one of the members without mercy so as to convey a warning to the other members, whilst ensuring they also see the leader of the Quad taking advantage of the misfortunes of the one being beaten.

We see this in Australia's producers and economy being trashed and its market share in China being eaten up by America and europe, we see that there is no relenting on this account despite the pleading from pathetic australians. By targeting one specifically, and leaving the leader unharmed, you create division, as China did to Japan when they nationalised the islands and the US benefited. Now, South Korea and Japan will not join the containment plan.
 
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
hashtagpls said:
China's strategy against the Quad is sound: attacking one of the members without mercy so as to convey a warning to the other members, whilst ensuring they also see the leader of the Quad taking advantage of the misfortunes of the one being beaten.

We see this in Australia's producers and economy being trashed and its market share in China being eaten up by America and europe, we see that there is no relenting on this account despite the pleading from pathetic australians. By targeting one specifically, and leaving the leader unharmed, you create division, as China did to Japan when they nationalised the islands and the US benefited. Now, South Korea and Japan will not join the containment plan.
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@hashtagpls @voyager1 agree with both of you, I think China experience the first international sanction after WW2 , in 1989 so they had a precedent to learn from after that they had prepare for any new eventuality. Regarding the Quad its a liability for the US, what can India contribute? right now China with the help of Pakistan can pin down India with minimal resources, as being discuss in the Ladakh thread. As far as I know The US is having an Imperial over reach and with half hearted commitment the remaining members is having a dithering moment.
 
V

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
ansy1968 said:
@hashtagpls @voyager1 agree with both of you, I think China experience the first international sanction after WW2 , in 1989 so they had a precedent to learn from after that they had prepare for any new eventuality. Regarding the Quad its a liability for the US, what can India contribute? right now China with the help of Pakistan can pin down India with minimal resources, as being discuss in the Ladakh thread. As far as I know The US is having an Imperial over reach and with half hearted commitment the remaining members is having a dithering moment.
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And China is uniquely positioned to address the declining US empire. If China knows something it is surely about its history when on the capital the Emperor was struggling day in day out to keep together his vast territory together.
Unruly provinces, provinces which were loyal, provinces where they said that they were loyal but plotting behind you, seperatism, in some cases external threats, border regions constantly rebelling or making it difficult for the Emperor to rule them.

It remnds you anything? That's the US today where they try to keep the rest of the world in its camp, but every country now is plotting and wants to regain true strategic independence. And how will the US emperor try to keep all of this together. Bribing is a valid tactic but the US with its declining financial resources cant do that. Militarily it is not as easy to do now as in the past, but it still has some limited use. So they use the human right card but that wont work as well
 
hashtagpls

hashtagpls

Senior Member
Registered Member
voyager1 said:
It remnds you anything? That's the US today where they try to keep the rest of the world in its camp, but every country now is plotting and wants to regain true strategic independence. And how will the US emperor try to keep all of this together. Bribing is a valid tactic but the US with its declining financial resources cant do that. Militarily it is not as easy to do now as in the past, but it still has some limited use. So they use the human right card but that wont work as well
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The "human rights card" is the anglo empire's version of "Mandate of Heaven" and "divine right to rule"; this fiction is easily debunked by something as mundane as the past year's covid response and that infamous infographic asserting that liberal democracies were better equipped to deal with pandemics.

Apparently, the human right to exist doesn't seem to factor into the anglos' version of human rights.
Biden's people are bringing nothing to the table in Anchorage and they know it; they can't even guarantee that they can roll back the cold war, especially when the country is on the verge of civil war and the political elites desperately need a foreign war to maintain power, as the european aristocrats needed a war to prevent the growing tide of socialism in their own nations.
 
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
hashtagpls said:
The "human rights card" is the anglo empire's version of "Mandate of Heaven" and "divine right to rule"; this fiction is easily debunked by something as mundane as the past year's covid response and that infamous infographic asserting that liberal democracies were better equipped to deal with pandemics.

Apparently, the human right to exist doesn't seem to factor into the anglos' version of human rights.
Biden's people are bringing nothing to the table in Anchorage and they know it; they can't even guarantee that they can roll back the cold war, especially when the country is on the verge of civil war and the political elites desperately need a foreign war to maintain power, as the european aristocrats needed a war to prevent the growing tide of socialism in their own nations.
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@hashtagpls woah! bro you explain it so well , all these noises about China will backfire badly cause it magnify their incompetency and apathy.
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
voyager1 said:
And China is uniquely positioned to address the declining US empire. If China knows something it is surely about its history when on the capital the Emperor was struggling day in day out to keep together his vast territory together.
Unruly provinces, provinces which were loyal, provinces where they said that they were loyal but plotting behind you, seperatism, in some cases external threats, border regions constantly rebelling or making it difficult for the Emperor to rule them.

It remnds you anything? That's the US today where they try to keep the rest of the world in its camp, but every country now is plotting and wants to regain true strategic independence. And how will the US emperor try to keep all of this together. Bribing is a valid tactic but the US with its declining financial resources cant do that. Militarily it is not as easy to do now as in the past, but it still has some limited use. So they use the human right card but that wont work as well
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If you haven't already, I'd recommend this book.

It's a fascinating take on past geopolitical changes and what could happen in the future.

The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change and Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000
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BlackWindMnt

BlackWindMnt

Major
Registered Member
AssassinsMace said:
You have to remember this is a US intelligence angle. Do they have proof China even bothered in any election? Really what president has been pro-China? And what they're really talking about is the last couple decades because there was no internet before to influence elections. You have Bush, Obama, and Trump. Which one was so pro-China for China to bother?
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Its not that hard to fake Russian and Chinese electioneering of democracies. Get/rent a VPN in china/russia create a couple of bots that will spam from a Chinese or Russian ip address social media stuff. This is the hard way, facebook, Twitter etc could also just create some bots and change their ip logging to make those connections seem russian or chinese. A competent developer should be able to do a proof of concept in weekend if he is bored.
 
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