CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Jeff Head]

Hah! I wish.

I think the only definitive confirmation of the catapult type for some people will be the first time we see 002 launch an aircraft from its catapult and whether steam comes out after it launches to determine whether it's steam or not... and for some people they will probably want to see all the catapults on the ship launch to determine if they are all steam or not steam, because some people will probably also speculate that maybe only one of the catapults are EM and the others are steam or something.

Well, that would be just crazy. it's going to be one or the other.

Think of all the different types of wiring and plumbing necessary to have both! AFor Pete's sake...that would be just crazy stuff.

it's a new carrier. it's going to be CATOBAR.

If they have them ready, if they have the power, if they are satisfied that they will be dependable and allow the vessel to launch its aircraft over and over and over again for decaes...then if their Electromagnetic Cat is ready to do that...they most surely will put them on the ship.

If not, and they have steam cats that are ready to do the same thing...they will put those on the ship.

Seriously...it's not big deal for them to go steam if they have to. The US will be doing steam for the next 40+ years on the Nimitz class as they remain in service. They are doing a heck of a fine job now with those cats.

They just decided for the US Navy to o all electric drive and they have PLENTY of additional power...and with rail guns and other electromagnetic technologies coming along, they decided to go for it with the new Ford class.

But believe me, th Reagan, the Bush, and the others are going to do just fine for decades more with steam.

We will just wait and see. I will give credit to the Chiense either way they go. Getting a new CATIOBAR carrier design out is going to be a HUGE accomplishment either way. The last new design before the Ford was the French CDG...and it turned out to be a one off.

I believe the Chinese carrier will be larger than the CDG, and they will do whatever design they come out with right...making sure it all works and will meet their needs.

You have to give the PLAN credit for carefully and methodically going down this path.

 

[vesicles]

My thoughts are similar. The talk about Navy uniforms is inconsequential to his answer about EMALS.

Imagined if I'm giving a lecture to a bunch of 10 yr olds about riding bicycles and some kid chimed up and asked me about F18s holding or landing envelope during high sea states. I go into detail about deck pitching, landing patterns, landing checklist, cross winds, 3 down and locked, hook down, flaps all full, antiskid off, 780 AGL, 380 knts approach on speed, high AoA etc doesn't make me less of an expert .

Well, the problem is not so much you talking about the F-18's, but the scenario of you giving a lecture to a bunch of 10-year olds. Actual experts and those who are in the know don't waste their time on lecturing 10-year olds. They send an errand boy to do that.

This is especially true in China, where status and "face" are so important. It would be considered an insult to send someone who is high-up enough to know sensitive military info to give any kind of lecture that covers uniform regulations.

I know that many might be a little frustrated with me fixated on uniforms. However, that piece of information is the ONLY information that is absolutely known. We don't know for sure if this said officer actually mentioned the catapult. We don't even know if the question of the catapult was even asked. And the lecture might cover many things in addition to uniforms. But the ONLY fact of the matter is that uniform stuff was included. The powerpoint slide on uniforms is in the photo.

I don't care what other stuff he has talked about during the lecture. The only thing that I can conclude is that any (and I mean "any") lecture that includes uniform regulations won't cover sensitive info. I've given many lectures myself. Each lecture needs to have a theme. You can't simply put in random stuff in there and jump from uniforms to CVs to tanks to turtles and then to missiles. When uniform stuff is within the theme of his lecture, this guy simply cannot be talking about important stuff.

Since he was giving the lecture at a marine institute, the most likely scenario would be that he is a recruiter and was there to recruit senior class who is about to graduate. We know that the PLA, especially the navy and the AF, focuses a lot on college graduates. And a civilian institute like a marine institute would be an obvious focus of their recruiting efforts. And recruiting talks most likely would include uniform info since the uniform is part of what makes military "cool" to kids.

It's also likely that the question of the catapult system was asked, and the officer was given the order to say the EMAL because it is high-tech and fancy and flashy, which will make the PLAN even more "cool" and will potentially attract more recruits.

Could his answer actually be true? Again, I don't think the recruiting department at the PLAN is in the know for such important and sensitive and maybe even classified info. Either his superior officer told him to say the most fancy thing, or he decided to choose the most fancy thing to say. In my opinion, his answer was simply a guess and was as good as any of the experts on this forum.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Well, that would be just crazy. it's going to be one or the other.

Think of all the different types of wiring and plumbing necessary to have both! AFor Pete's sake...that would be just crazy stuff.

it's a new carrier. it's going to be CATOBAR.

If they have them ready, if they have the power, if they are satisfied that they will be dependable and allow the vessel to launch its aircraft over and over and over again for decaes...then if their Electromagnetic Cat is ready to do that...they most surely will put them on the ship.

If not, and they have steam cats that are ready to do the same thing...they will put those on the ship.

Seriously...it's not big deal for them to go steam if they have to. The US will be doing steam for the next 40+ years on the Nimitz class as they remain in service. They are doing a heck of a fine job now with those cats.

They just decided for the US Navy to o all electric drive and they have PLENTY of additional power...and with rail guns and other electromagnetic technologies coming along, they decided to go for it with the new Ford class.

But believe me, th Reagan, the Bush, and the others are going to do just fine for decades more with steam.

We will just wait and see. I will give credit to the Chiense either way they go. Getting a new CATIOBAR carrier design out is going to be a HUGE accomplishment either way. The last new design before the Ford was the French CDG...and it turned out to be a one off.

I believe the Chinese carrier will be larger than the CDG, and they will do whatever design they come out with right...making sure it all works and will meet their needs.

You have to give the PLAN credit for carefully and methodically going down this path.

Amen! just like the Quija board. it's 2017 and in some quarters they are still use on USN CVNs for tracking and positioning on the deck although they are being replaced with fancy electronic boards.
I mean we're talking caveman technology here... using screws, bolts, nuts and cardboards!

 

[kwaigonegin]

Well, the problem is not so much you talking about the F-18's, but the scenario of you giving a lecture to a bunch of 10-year olds. Actual experts and those who are in the know don't waste their time on lecturing 10-year olds. They send an errand boy to do that.

This is especially true in China, where status and "face" are so important. It would be considered an insult to send someone who is high-up enough to know sensitive military info to give any kind of lecture that covers uniform regulations.

I know that many might be a little frustrated with me fixated on uniforms. However, that piece of information is the ONLY information that is absolutely known. We don't know for sure if this said officer actually mentioned the catapult. We don't even know if the question of the catapult was even asked. And the lecture might cover many things in addition to uniforms. But the ONLY fact of the matter is that uniform stuff was included. The powerpoint slide on uniforms is in the photo.

I don't care what other stuff he has talked about during the lecture. The only thing that I can conclude is that any (and I mean "any") lecture that includes uniform regulations won't cover sensitive info. I've given many lectures myself. Each lecture needs to have a theme. You can't simply put in random stuff in there and jump from uniforms to CVs to tanks to turtles and then to missiles. When uniform stuff is within the theme of his lecture, this guy simply cannot be talking about important stuff.

Since he was giving the lecture at a marine institute, the most likely scenario would be that he is a recruiter and was there to recruit senior class who is about to graduate. We know that the PLA, especially the navy and the AF, focuses a lot on college graduates. And a civilian institute like a marine institute would be an obvious focus of their recruiting efforts. And recruiting talks most likely would include uniform info since the uniform is part of what makes military "cool" to kids.

It's also likely that the question of the catapult system was asked, and the officer was given the order to say the EMAL because it is high-tech and fancy and flashy, which will make the PLAN even more "cool" and will potentially attract more recruits.

Could his answer actually be true? Again, I don't think the recruiting department at the PLAN is in the know for such important and sensitive and maybe even classified info. Either his superior officer told him to say the most fancy thing, or he decided to choose the most fancy thing to say. In my opinion, his answer was simply a guess and was as good as any of the experts on this forum.

I don't know what transpired since I wasn't there, but this question about EMALS was it asked as an off the cuff question or was it actually one of the topics of his lecture etc?

If it was the former, i.e side question by a curious individual then I don't see anything wrong with it as per the example I gave about myself in my earlier post.

I mean he could very well just make up an answer on the spot but why? As Jeff alluded to there is nothing wrong with steam cats. It it's steam he would've said steam.. or if he wasn't sure he would said I'm not sure or let me get back to you etc... but he said neither. He said EMALS.

The only other possibilitty is maybe he was really caught off guard, didn't know the answer but said the first thing that came to mind regardless of actual facts to avoid embarrassment.

 

[vesicles]

The only other possibilitty is maybe he was really caught off guard, didn't know the answer but said the first thing that came to mind regardless of actual facts to avoid embarrassment.

I think this is more likely the case.

Also, EMAL sounds fancier to a layperson. I as a layperson think EMAL is fancy stuff. Like I mentioned earlier, he might just wanted to say the coolest thing to make himself and/or the PLAN look cool.

 

[Mirabo]

I think this is more likely the case.

Also, EMAL sounds fancier to a layperson. I as a layperson think EMAL is fancy stuff. Like I mentioned earlier, he might just wanted to say the coolest thing to make himself and/or the PLAN look cool.

Except that there's no technical term such as "EMALS" in Chinese, at least, not in casual speech. It's either “电弹” ('electric' catapult) or “蒸弹” ('steam' catapult). I don't see how answering with the former would be any more "cool" than answering with the latter.

It would seem that the question was asked 'on the side', that is to say, it was not part of the lecture. Hence, the theme of the lecture is largely irrelevant. We also know that he's an officer because the stripes on his cuffs marks him as a 上尉, equivalent to a Lieutenant.

However, saying that the officer was ordered to answer 'electromagnetic' in the event that someone raised this question, for the sake of coming off as "cool," is a bit far-fetched. This "leak" (assuming it's true) is something that shouldn't have to be taken at anything beyond face value.

It really does seem like an avid PLA fan just wanted to squeeze out a bit more information on the 002 while he had the chance.

 

[Intrepid]

The best thing is, ten years ago, we debated whether the Chinese can build aircraft carriers with catapults at all. Now the question remains whether there are steam catapults or electromagnetic catapults.

 

[vesicles]

Except that there's no technical term such as "EMALS" in Chinese, at least, not in casual speech. It's either “电弹” ('electric' catapult) or “蒸弹” ('steam' catapult). I don't see how answering with the former would be any more "cool" than answering with the latter.

I always thought EMAL was a newer technology, hence the cool factor.

It would seem that the question was asked 'on the side', that is to say, it was not part of the lecture. Hence, the theme of the lecture is largely irrelevant. We also know that he's an officer because the stripes on his cuffs marks him as a 上尉, equivalent to a Lieutenant.

I have never said the mentioning of the catapults was an intended part of the lecture. I agree 100% that it must be an off the cuff question. My point was focused on the uniform part of the lecture. And I have insisted that any individual who is giving a lecture involving uniforms should not have the qualification to make comments on catapults, hence the comment about the errand boy. Keep in mind what I said about lectures typically having a theme. You have an hour to wow your audience. No one wants to waste time on non-essential stuff. So it is most likely that his whole lecture has something to do with uniforms. This is also why I suspect that he is a PLAN recruiter.

However, saying that the officer was ordered to answer 'electromagnetic' in the event that someone raised this question, for the sake of coming off as "cool," is a bit far-fetched. This "leak" (assuming it's true) is something that shouldn't have to be taken at anything beyond face value.

I agree that comment of mine is a bit far-fetched since his commanding officer would not have anticipated a question on the new catapults, hence very little chance of "ordering" him to give certain answer.

I do however believe that his answer was simply his own guess. The kind of job that this officer is doing does not suggest that he would have the clearance to know the details of China's latest CV construction. Like I said before, it is of my opinion that this guy is a recruiter on a routine on-site recruiting job. And he blabbered something that he has no idea about.

It really does seem like an avid PLA fan just wanted to squeeze out a bit more information on the 002 while he had the chance.

Agreed 100%

A little disclaimer in the end. I have no position on what kind of catapult the Chinese will put on their third CV. I have zero qualification to even make a guess. Based on our experts, either one is perfectly fine. My comments are solely based on my own interpretation of the situation at the marine institute. Nothing more.

 

[kwaigonegin]

I always thought EMAL was a newer technology, hence the cool factor.



I have never said the mentioning of the catapults was an intended part of the lecture. I agree 100% that it must be an off the cuff question. My point was focused on the uniform part of the lecture. And I have insisted that any individual who is giving a lecture involving uniforms should not have the qualification to make comments on catapults, hence the comment about the errand boy. Keep in mind what I said about lectures typically having a theme. You have an hour to wow your audience. No one wants to waste time on non-essential stuff. So it is most likely that his whole lecture has something to do with uniforms. This is also why I suspect that he is a PLAN recruiter.



I agree that comment of mine is a bit far-fetched since his commanding officer would not have anticipated a question on the new catapults, hence very little chance of "ordering" him to give certain answer.

I do however believe that his answer was simply his own guess. The kind of job that this officer is doing does not suggest that he would have the clearance to know the details of China's latest CV construction. Like I said before, it is of my opinion that this guy is a recruiter on a routine on-site recruiting job. And he blabbered something that he has no idea about.



Agreed 100%

A little disclaimer in the end. I have no position on what kind of catapult the Chinese will put on their third CV. I have zero qualification to even make a guess. Based on our experts, either one is perfectly fine. My comments are solely based on my own interpretation of the situation at the marine institute. Nothing more.

no worries buddy.. I got you.. besides I'm glad you brought this up afterall part of what makes this forum a good forum is the speculation. There is nothing wrong with speculation even if it's based on light facts here and there.
The FACT is this dude talked about it. The FACT is China IS researching and developing EMALS. Those are good enough for me to speculate.

How close they are to an actual production system or if it makes into CV02 are all just pure speculation for now but it's fun to guess!

 

[vesicles]

no worries buddy.. I got you.. besides I'm glad you brought this up afterall part of what makes this forum a good forum is the speculation. There is nothing wrong with speculation even if it's based on light facts here and there.
The FACT is this dude talked about it. The FACT is China IS researching and developing EMALS. Those are good enough for me to speculate.

How close they are to an actual production system or if it makes into CV02 are all just pure speculation for now but it's fun to guess!

Hahaha... Part of fun of China watching...