CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[kentchang]

4 male pole briefly about the aircraft carrier. Only see the owner
News〇卩3
2021-1-6 20:34 Bookmark
The first thing to do is to start with the 891 aircraft carrier. The 707 aircraft carrier project in the 1970s was too long ago, after all.
The 891 aircraft carrier was started in the late 1980s as a military project rather than a national project. At that time, "the military had to endure" policy, resulting in insufficient military spending, and the mainland's military spending was even less than that of a province in Taiwan.
In the mid-1990s, the Navy and the headquarters officially reported the development of the 891 aircraft carrier project to the Military Commission and submitted a request for a national project report.
Don't blame Lao Jiang here, he didn't have any say in the matter, for example, he dared not speak out against the great evil consequences of the military's business.
When the 891 aircraft carrier project was dismantled, many people shed tears and were speechless. I heard He Pengfei personally slamming the table and cursing when he talked about this matter in a meeting.
However, although the 891 aircraft carrier was dismantled, it also accumulated certain experience and reserves for the later development of aircraft carriers.
The subsequent introduction of the Varyag was led by the military and was a product of the "curve to save the ship".
After the return of the Varyag, the military coordinated with various ministries and commissions, but the commissary had the most resistance and did its best to stop it.
At the coordination meeting, the commissary said, "Can your troops solve the South China Sea problem if they have an aircraft carrier? The military was angry and slapped the table.
The matter was finally decided by Lao Jiang: Go!
After Lao Jiang's decision, the voice of the commissary's opposition disappeared. The second ship, now the Shandong ship, was also extremely contradictory at the beginning, the Navy and the ship's General Administration thought that the second ship must be a catapult carrier, but some people did not believe in our ability, and thought that the Varyag ship would be copied and then changed.
The conflict was referred to Laohu, who finally gave the go-ahead and went ahead with the Varyag's replica and improved model. In retrospect, Laohu's decision was correct and gave us time.
The No. 3 ship went exactly as planned, with steam catapult.
At that time, the General Armament Department sent a special person on site in Shanghai to keep an eye on the project and coordinate problems.
The steam catapult progressed exactly as expected.
After the technical design of the third ship was completed, the contract with Jiangnan Factory
However, soon after construction began, it was temporarily suspended because the electromagnetic catapult project was progressing too fast, which posed a dilemma.
The electromagnetic catapult project was first reviewed in the first half of 2011, and the conclusion of the review was negative.
The Navy did not give up, and after correcting the situation, organized another project review meeting in the second half of the same year and passed the review, allocating X billion yuan in funding that year.
The electromagnetic catapult project has since been progressing at a fast pace, and in early 2019 it was ready to be installed on the ship, which created a choice between continuing to use the traditional steam catapult or the more advanced electromagnetic catapult.
It is said that the final decision on this matter was made by Xi, who first suspended the construction of the third ship and revised the drawings according to the electromagnetic catapult plan, while the time required to revise the drawings by the Chinese Ship Design Center in Wuhan was one year.
In 2020, the drawings will be revised and construction of the aircraft carrier will resume at the Jiangnan plant.

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This is done by DeepL? I matched the Chinese with the translation. I am amazed at the quality.

 

[Daniel707]

4 male pole briefly about the aircraft carrier. Only see the owner
News〇卩3
2021-1-6 20:34 Bookmark
The first thing to do is to start with the 891 aircraft carrier. The 707 aircraft carrier project in the 1970s was too long ago, after all.
The 891 aircraft carrier was started in the late 1980s as a military project rather than a national project. At that time, "the military had to endure" policy, resulting in insufficient military spending, and the mainland's military spending was even less than that of a province in Taiwan.
In the mid-1990s, the Navy and the headquarters officially reported the development of the 891 aircraft carrier project to the Military Commission and submitted a request for a national project report.
Don't blame Lao Jiang here, he didn't have any say in the matter, for example, he dared not speak out against the great evil consequences of the military's business.
When the 891 aircraft carrier project was dismantled, many people shed tears and were speechless. I heard He Pengfei personally slamming the table and cursing when he talked about this matter in a meeting.
However, although the 891 aircraft carrier was dismantled, it also accumulated certain experience and reserves for the later development of aircraft carriers.
The subsequent introduction of the Varyag was led by the military and was a product of the "curve to save the ship".
After the return of the Varyag, the military coordinated with various ministries and commissions, but the commissary had the most resistance and did its best to stop it.
At the coordination meeting, the commissary said, "Can your troops solve the South China Sea problem if they have an aircraft carrier? The military was angry and slapped the table.
The matter was finally decided by Lao Jiang: Go!
After Lao Jiang's decision, the voice of the commissary's opposition disappeared. The second ship, now the Shandong ship, was also extremely contradictory at the beginning, the Navy and the ship's General Administration thought that the second ship must be a catapult carrier, but some people did not believe in our ability, and thought that the Varyag ship would be copied and then changed.
The conflict was referred to Laohu, who finally gave the go-ahead and went ahead with the Varyag's replica and improved model. In retrospect, Laohu's decision was correct and gave us time.
The No. 3 ship went exactly as planned, with steam catapult.
At that time, the General Armament Department sent a special person on site in Shanghai to keep an eye on the project and coordinate problems.
The steam catapult progressed exactly as expected.
After the technical design of the third ship was completed, the contract with Jiangnan Factory
However, soon after construction began, it was temporarily suspended because the electromagnetic catapult project was progressing too fast, which posed a dilemma.
The electromagnetic catapult project was first reviewed in the first half of 2011, and the conclusion of the review was negative.
The Navy did not give up, and after correcting the situation, organized another project review meeting in the second half of the same year and passed the review, allocating X billion yuan in funding that year.
The electromagnetic catapult project has since been progressing at a fast pace, and in early 2019 it was ready to be installed on the ship, which created a choice between continuing to use the traditional steam catapult or the more advanced electromagnetic catapult.
It is said that the final decision on this matter was made by Xi, who first suspended the construction of the third ship and revised the drawings according to the electromagnetic catapult plan, while the time required to revise the drawings by the Chinese Ship Design Center in Wuhan was one year.
In 2020, the drawings will be revised and construction of the aircraft carrier will resume at the Jiangnan plant.

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Lucky for Chinese Aircraft Carrier Programme, they indeed have Visionary & Persistent Leader and Officers in China's Navy rank.

If not, they maybe still in Green water navy level today. More or less, just like Russian Navy without Kuznetsov AC.

Indeed, Xi's Final decision in 2019 to revise the 3rd Aircraft Carrier from Steam catapults to EMALS one have very significant impact to this Great leap of China's Aircraft Carrier Development.

Xi Jinping is a Progressive leader, I need to admit

 

[Deino]

4 male pole briefly about the aircraft carrier. Only see the owner
News〇卩3
2021-1-6 20:34 Bookmark
The first thing to do is to start with the 891 aircraft carrier. The 707 aircraft carrier project in the 1970s was too long ago, after all.
The 891 aircraft carrier was started in the late 1980s as a military project rather than a national project. At that time, "the military had to endure" policy, resulting in insufficient military spending, and the mainland's military spending was even less than that of a province in Taiwan.
In the mid-1990s, the Navy and the headquarters officially reported the development of the 891 aircraft carrier project to the Military Commission and submitted a request for a national project report.
Don't blame Lao Jiang here, he didn't have any say in the matter, for example, he dared not speak out against the great evil consequences of the military's business.
When the 891 aircraft carrier project was dismantled, many people shed tears and were speechless. I heard He Pengfei personally slamming the table and cursing when he talked about this matter in a meeting.
However, although the 891 aircraft carrier was dismantled, it also accumulated certain experience and reserves for the later development of aircraft carriers.
The subsequent introduction of the Varyag was led by the military and was a product of the "curve to save the ship".
After the return of the Varyag, the military coordinated with various ministries and commissions, but the commissary had the most resistance and did its best to stop it.
At the coordination meeting, the commissary said, "Can your troops solve the South China Sea problem if they have an aircraft carrier? The military was angry and slapped the table.
The matter was finally decided by Lao Jiang: Go!
After Lao Jiang's decision, the voice of the commissary's opposition disappeared. The second ship, now the Shandong ship, was also extremely contradictory at the beginning, the Navy and the ship's General Administration thought that the second ship must be a catapult carrier, but some people did not believe in our ability, and thought that the Varyag ship would be copied and then changed.
The conflict was referred to Laohu, who finally gave the go-ahead and went ahead with the Varyag's replica and improved model. In retrospect, Laohu's decision was correct and gave us time.
The No. 3 ship went exactly as planned, with steam catapult.
At that time, the General Armament Department sent a special person on site in Shanghai to keep an eye on the project and coordinate problems.
The steam catapult progressed exactly as expected.
After the technical design of the third ship was completed, the contract with Jiangnan Factory
However, soon after construction began, it was temporarily suspended because the electromagnetic catapult project was progressing too fast, which posed a dilemma.
The electromagnetic catapult project was first reviewed in the first half of 2011, and the conclusion of the review was negative.
The Navy did not give up, and after correcting the situation, organized another project review meeting in the second half of the same year and passed the review, allocating X billion yuan in funding that year.
The electromagnetic catapult project has since been progressing at a fast pace, and in early 2019 it was ready to be installed on the ship, which created a choice between continuing to use the traditional steam catapult or the more advanced electromagnetic catapult.
It is said that the final decision on this matter was made by Xi, who first suspended the construction of the third ship and revised the drawings according to the electromagnetic catapult plan, while the time required to revise the drawings by the Chinese Ship Design Center in Wuhan was one year.
In 2020, the drawings will be revised and construction of the aircraft carrier will resume at the Jiangnan plant.

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Thanks ... here a translation posted by samsara/PDF:

 

[ansy1968]

Thanks ... here a translation posted by samsara/PDF:

View attachment 67236View attachment 67237

Hi Deino,

Due to the changes in design ( from steam to electromagnetic), do you think that China will only build a single ship of 003 class carrier and moved on to a new design ?

 

[Deino]

Hi Deino,

Due to the changes in design ( from steam to electromagnetic), do you think that China will only build a single ship of 003 class carrier and moved on to a new design ?

Actually I'm not a PLAN guy ... this should better be answered by others (@Bltizo, @Tam ??)

 

[Blitzo]

Hi Deino,

Due to the changes in design ( from steam to electromagnetic), do you think that China will only build a single ship of 003 class carrier and moved on to a new design ?

I don't think the change from steam to EM would have any significant bearing on whether they would only build one 003 or not.

I think they will definitely build more than one conventionally powered CATOBAR, but whether 003 is followed by a second 003 or an evolved 003 is another question.

 

[Mirabo]

Hi Deino,

Due to the changes in design ( from steam to electromagnetic), do you think that China will only build a single ship of 003 class carrier and moved on to a new design ?

Well the rumors were and still are all over the place. Originally we expected two ships of the 003 design - one in Dalian and one in Jiangnan.

But some people say that Dalian won't be building a 003 as they're busy upgrading and expanding facilities to support CVN construction. Not to mention the whole corruption/purge kerfluffle.

More recently, we heard that there will still be two 003s, but the second will also be built at Jiangnan instead of Dalian.

So yeah we don't know. A better indication might be to look at other ongoing projects and cross-check from there. Are they buiding enough 055s and 052Ds to support two 003s (plus 002 and 001)? Are there enough planes and enough pilots? Will J-35 really be unveiled this year? How much dock space is there in Hainan/Qingdao/other major bases, and is there enough for 4 fleet carriers?

Personally, I don't expect Dalian to build a 003. It just isn't as good a shipyard as Jiangnan. Also consider the uncertainty from the leadership shake-up and merger, and that Jiangnan already has a whole assembly line set up for that size of carrier with that method of modular assembly.

If Jiangnan is indeed working on a second 003, we should see evidence of that soon. Any later than this year and they should just go straight to CVN, given the new expansion and nuclear handling facilities being planned, and assuming that Dalian should be almost finished with their own facility upgrades.

 

[Tam]

Bingo.

Also the facilities on Dalian looks more limited due to the city growth and the surrounding highlands, while Changxing has the combined resources of Jiangnan, Hudong Zhonghua and Waigaoqiao.

More and more 003 looks to be a combined CSSC project. That means its not Jiangnan alone, but in combination of the other two. The basin that appeared to be made for 003, and the area where 003's modules was first laid, looks to be on Hudong Zhonghua's part of the island. Doesn't surprise me one bit when Hudong Zhonghua is doing the other flattops for the PLAN.

The drydocks available for all three combined in Changxing, along with the new HDZ extension, makes it possible to have not just one, or two, but multiple carrier projects to be built simultaneously, assuming the yards are not contracted building megabox ships, large LNG carriers (HDZ i in contract to build the world's largest LNG carrier), tankers and CON-ROs. Trying to get Dalian to build a 003 class carrier would increase its cost as you have to reproduce and duplicate the manufacturing skillsets, and the only benefit there is to distribute and decentralize those skillsets. If the CCP desires this as an end result, fine. But in terms of cost and efficiency, its not the optimal thing. The US and the UK all built their carriers in one shipyard per respective country.

In the future, as Hudong Zhonghua closes its Huangpu facility from 2023, 075s and 076s may end up being made in that Changxing extension. So there is a huge production scale going on there with all flat tops concentrated on one island. I can see how 055 and 052D/E might be moved to Dalian instead as Changxing will be made to specialize in larger capital ships. This will make Dalian the new destroyer production center.

 

[Tam]

Hi Deino,

Due to the changes in design ( from steam to electromagnetic), do you think that China will only build a single ship of 003 class carrier and moved on to a new design ?

That's up to them. I get the impression that a fourth carrier class is still in the conceptual stage and things are still being discussed. With the political urgency, 003 may not be a single ship class however and if the first turned out to do well, this can end up being a multiship class. If the design is pretty good, PLAN can get bullish about it and sign up to build more of these ships without having to wait for the first to trial and prove things up. This is kind of like what the PLAN did with the 055. If PLAN isn't that happy with the design, 003 may end up being another interim ship design that looks to transition to a more definitive ship. But if PLAN is happy with 003, 003 may be definitive, with follow up ships of the same class having minor modifications and improvements to refine the design further.

 

[Orthan]

That's up to them. I get the impression that a fourth carrier class is still in the conceptual stage and things are still being discussed. With the political urgency, 003 may not be a single ship class however and if the first turned out to do well, this can end up being a multiship class. If the design is pretty good, PLAN can get bullish about it and sign up to build more of these ships without having to wait for the first to trial and prove things up. This is kind of like what the PLAN did with the 055. If PLAN isn't that happy with the design, 003 may end up being another interim ship design that looks to transition to a more definitive ship. But if PLAN is happy with 003, 003 may be definitive, with follow up ships of the same class having minor modifications and improvements to refine the design further.

If 003 inherits shandong´s isle, and it seems that it will, i dont think that they will be much happy about it. That isle is huge, and takes a lot of real estate in the carrier.