CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
To begin, I'm going to clear up a few points that have previously been misinterpreted.
Now, regarding the 003's tonnage.
The general understanding is that, if there have been no significant improvements made to the PLAN's steam propulsion technology, then the 003's tonnage will inevitably not be too high, maybe 60,000 tons standard at most. There currently exists quite a large disparity between Chinese and American boilers, and if it remains unresolved, then the 002's tonnage could be severely limited if it wants to retain a reasonable speed. This is what speculation on fzgfzy's remarks have basically amounted to.
The 65,000-ton standard load Kitty Hawk's 8 boilers across 4 shafts gives it a total of 280,000 shp, or 35,000 shp per boiler, enabling a 32-knot top speed. On the other hand, the 002's 8 boilers, with a design derived from Kuznetsov's, only produces around 200,000 shp, or 25,000 per boiler. If the PLAN puts a 200,000 shp powerplant on a 65,000-ton standard load carrier, its speed would be mediocre, no matter how well they try to optimize the hull form. After all, the 55,000-ton standard 002 with an optimized hull form and 200,000 shp can just make 31 knots.
Simply put, if PLAN steam propulsion has not improved over the 002, then the 003 will not displace much more than 60,000 tons standard if the PLAN wants it to hit 30 knots.
- Parts for 6 CVs including 001 and 002 have been ordered. This means CV #3, #4, #5, and #6.
- May eventually be expanded to eight total carriers, i.e. #7 and #8 as well.
Now, regarding the 003's tonnage.
The general understanding is that, if there have been no significant improvements made to the PLAN's steam propulsion technology, then the 003's tonnage will inevitably not be too high, maybe 60,000 tons standard at most. There currently exists quite a large disparity between Chinese and American boilers, and if it remains unresolved, then the 002's tonnage could be severely limited if it wants to retain a reasonable speed. This is what speculation on fzgfzy's remarks have basically amounted to.
The 65,000-ton standard load Kitty Hawk's 8 boilers across 4 shafts gives it a total of 280,000 shp, or 35,000 shp per boiler, enabling a 32-knot top speed. On the other hand, the 002's 8 boilers, with a design derived from Kuznetsov's, only produces around 200,000 shp, or 25,000 per boiler. If the PLAN puts a 200,000 shp powerplant on a 65,000-ton standard load carrier, its speed would be mediocre, no matter how well they try to optimize the hull form. After all, the 55,000-ton standard 002 with an optimized hull form and 200,000 shp can just make 31 knots.
Simply put, if PLAN steam propulsion has not improved over the 002, then the 003 will not displace much more than 60,000 tons standard if the PLAN wants it to hit 30 knots.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
First step first via LKj86. I though they already have 100 Mw nuclear reactor for civilian ready for many years now I don't think you don't need minor adjustment to use in ships. So that is the purpose of trying it first on Icebreker
China one step closer to nuke-powered aircraft carrier with cutting-edge icebreaker comes on stream
By Zhao Yusha Source:Global Times Published: 2018/6/22 18:58:39
A J-15 fighter jet takes off from China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning. Photo: VCG
China has opened the bid to construct its first nuclear-powered icebreaker support ship, a move to prepare for the construction of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, military observers said.
China National Nuclear Corporation on Thursday opened public bidding for the nuclear-powered icebreaker ship, its website said.
It will be China's first nuclear-powered icebreaker support ship, and it will be able to break ice, open waterways in the polar region and provide electricity.
Bidders are required to participate in research, appraisal, building and testing of the ship, and provide technology support for the user.
This is China's first nuclear-powered ship, which is of great significance to China's development of nuclear-powered vessels, an anonymous military expert told the Global Times.
The ship's nuclear power unit is huge and can be applied to a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier once updated, so it can be seen as a preparation for the aircraft carrier, Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times.
Nuclear power technology will also be applied to other military vessels, which allows them to travel long distances, and thus protect national security and overseas interests, Song said.
The US and former Soviet Union used their experience with nuclear-powered icebreaker ships to build a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, he noted.
China is attaching more importance to the polar regions, as the ice in the Arctic is melting, and many countries are actively paving new waterways and exploring seabed resources, the anonymous expert said.
The building of a nuclear-powered icebreaker support ship will enhance China's ability to conduct scientific explorations in these regions, according to Song.
In February, China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) said in a statement that it plans to "speed up the process of making technological breakthroughs in nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, new-type nuclear submarines, quiet submarines, maritime unmanned intelligent confrontation systems, maritime three-dimensional offensive and defensive systems, and comprehensive naval warfare electronic information systems."
The statement has caused heated discussion as this is the first time a State-owned Chinese defense company has openly identified nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.
China commissioned its first aircraft carrier Liaoning, a refurbished Soviet ship it bought from Ukraine, in 2012. Its second carrier and the first domestically built carrier, known as Type 001A, was launched in April last year.
Source:
China one step closer to nuke-powered aircraft carrier with cutting-edge icebreaker comes on stream
By Zhao Yusha Source:Global Times Published: 2018/6/22 18:58:39
A J-15 fighter jet takes off from China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning. Photo: VCG
China has opened the bid to construct its first nuclear-powered icebreaker support ship, a move to prepare for the construction of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, military observers said.
China National Nuclear Corporation on Thursday opened public bidding for the nuclear-powered icebreaker ship, its website said.
It will be China's first nuclear-powered icebreaker support ship, and it will be able to break ice, open waterways in the polar region and provide electricity.
Bidders are required to participate in research, appraisal, building and testing of the ship, and provide technology support for the user.
This is China's first nuclear-powered ship, which is of great significance to China's development of nuclear-powered vessels, an anonymous military expert told the Global Times.
The ship's nuclear power unit is huge and can be applied to a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier once updated, so it can be seen as a preparation for the aircraft carrier, Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times.
Nuclear power technology will also be applied to other military vessels, which allows them to travel long distances, and thus protect national security and overseas interests, Song said.
The US and former Soviet Union used their experience with nuclear-powered icebreaker ships to build a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, he noted.
China is attaching more importance to the polar regions, as the ice in the Arctic is melting, and many countries are actively paving new waterways and exploring seabed resources, the anonymous expert said.
The building of a nuclear-powered icebreaker support ship will enhance China's ability to conduct scientific explorations in these regions, according to Song.
In February, China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) said in a statement that it plans to "speed up the process of making technological breakthroughs in nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, new-type nuclear submarines, quiet submarines, maritime unmanned intelligent confrontation systems, maritime three-dimensional offensive and defensive systems, and comprehensive naval warfare electronic information systems."
The statement has caused heated discussion as this is the first time a State-owned Chinese defense company has openly identified nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.
China commissioned its first aircraft carrier Liaoning, a refurbished Soviet ship it bought from Ukraine, in 2012. Its second carrier and the first domestically built carrier, known as Type 001A, was launched in April last year.
Source:
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
What make you think that China cannot scale up the power plant . They have highly developed power plant industry And have built commercial power plant of different sizes and exported it all over the world
D
Deleted member 13312
Guest
Well I am hoping that the 002 uses gas turbine engines instead of steam boilers, like the QE. These gives greater power to size and weight ratio. Plus are generally more reliable if manufactured correctly.
There are several possible candidates for this power plant, one would be the CGT-60F. If the 002 uses an EMALS catapult, this will greatly contribute to the electrical generation via IEP. If the 002 ends up using steam instead, the gas turbine will ensure that the catapult and engine systems are 2 separate systems, so that engine failure will not effect flight deck operations.
There are several possible candidates for this power plant, one would be the CGT-60F. If the 002 uses an EMALS catapult, this will greatly contribute to the electrical generation via IEP. If the 002 ends up using steam instead, the gas turbine will ensure that the catapult and engine systems are 2 separate systems, so that engine failure will not effect flight deck operations.
I never said they couldn't. I just said we don't know if they can.
That being said, the point that Chinese boilers are inadequate isn't just my personal belief, but has also been brought up by big shrimps. The quality of Chinese boilers is a perfectly valid concern, and it's foolish to just dismiss it just because "they have a highly developed power plant industry."
How many Chinese warships aside from the 001 and 002 use steam turbines? How many Chinese-built civilian ships use steam turbines? The real answer is about 15 to 20. That's the approximate number of LNG carriers China has built, the only civilian ships to use steam turbines in the modern age. Other military ships all use diesel, gas, or both.
If you consider this fact, the PLAN has next to zero experience developing this type of powerplant, so I don't think they have a "highly developed" industry at all with regards to steam propulsion. If they did, they wouldn't have had to derive the 002's powerplant from the Kuznetsov's ancient relic of a design.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Boiler is boiler There is no such thing as modern boiler design It is old technology anything modern must be the control and data acquisition thing or better material maybe modern burner design But the basic boiler design doe not change for a long time It is either A Frame or O frame I believe the Varyag design is O frame or tubular design
CV17 is the same size of Liaoning so it make perfect sense to just use the existing design why reinvent the wheel you can make improvement on the burner , burner control, fire management and data center
China DID make improvement on the boiler design you can compare the smoke from Kutznetzov vs Liaoning . Liaoning spew less of smoke compare to Kutnetzov It mean more efficient burning
So I don't understand what you mean by relic design?
So why not use gas turbine engines?
Don't shoot the messenger...