That's why I said "currently". The point is that an 80,000 ton carrier is not the same as a 100,000 ton carrier. In any case a fixed-wing complement of 48+4 is already more than double the fixed-wing complement of the Liaoning/Shandong.
CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
China has a lot of new technology to test. It makes sense to save investment on nuclear power on this ship and perhaps following ones to get that technology well tested.
BTW We saw that the article was written by a well known ignorant journalist.
J-15 number on 2 graphics for future Chinee CVs are very good i have it for Shandong 32 - 36
Exact US CVN can host in more a VFA/Sqn and USN/USMC ( USMC provide 4 F-18 Sqns for CAWs ) have enough fighters units to provide 5 VFAs for severals CVNs
The full complement I referred to was accommodated by American 80,000 tons fossil carriers. During the Cold War, 80,000 ton American fossil carriers and 100,000 ton nuclear carriers carried essentially the same standard air wing of around 85 fixed wing aircraft, including 40-50 large aircraft such as F-14,A-6 and s-3. The flight deck, hanger deck, and aircraft carrying and haltingly capacity of 80,000 ton and 100,000 ton carriers were also similar. The main difference is in persistence, how many sorties and how many full strikes can a 80,000 ton carrier can launch before it needs underway replenishment that can be done in battle area, and how many it can do before it needs deeper replenishmemt that require the carrier to depart the immediate battle zone and replenish with logistics groups several hundred miles back.
Only the much smaller WWII vintage Midway class of around 65,000 Tons carried a smaller Air wing, they carried around 65 fixed wing aircrafts.
American carrier doctrine is heavily informed by carrier battles of WWII, and emphasize the only and the supreme value of a carrier is the airwing it carries, so tthe carrier should carry the largest possible airwing, and that an extra Air plane is worth any on-board armament it displaces. I don’t think this doctrine has been abandoned, just that when not faced with first tier enemy, the USN doesn’t have the funds to put a full complement of aircraft on every flight deck it decided was prudent to retain.
Last edited:
Same CAW except for Midway specified on my chart
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Via cirr from pakdef. Admiral Yin Zhuo said China has tested emal for hundreds of times. true or false?
China develops a catapult for planes
2017-11-16 08:39 China Daily Editor: Li Yan
A J-15 fighter jet lands on CNS Liaoning in July. (Photo/Xinhua)
Electromagnetic system to boost carrier fleet's combat capability
China has developed its own version of a cutting-edge device previously possessed only by the United States and is poised to use it to boost its aircraft carrier fleet's combat capability.
The device, known as an electromagnetic launch system, or electromagnetic catapult, was designed by Chinese engineers to assist planes taking off from aircraft carriers. The system has been tested with J-15 carrier-borne fighter jets, according to Rear Admiral Yin Zhuo, director of the People's Liberation Army Navy's expert consultation committee.
He said on China Central Television recently that J-15s have made "thousands of takeoffs" using the electromagnetic launch system.
Before China developed its catapult, expertise in the technology had long been the domain of the United States, because of the system's complexity and sophistication.
Unlike taking off from a runway on the ground, fixed-wing aircraft on carriers need assistance from a special apparatus to take off because a flight deck is not long enough for a plane to gain sufficient speed to fly. Catapults give them an extra shove.
A steel cable attaches the plane to the catapult and drags it rapidly forward for takeoff. With older technology, the pulling force of the cable was powered by steam. Electromagnetic force provides an alternative solution that brings certain advantages.
China's midsize carrier, the CNS Liaoning, uses a ski-jump design for its takeoff ramp - with an upward slope at one end to increase the angle of a plane's wings, thereby generating lift. Large carriers, however, such as those deployed by the US Navy, use catapults.
Electromagnetic launch systems are believed to be the most advanced carrier-based technology for assisting takeoffs.
Yin said China was able to develop the device because its engineers have designed a state-of-the-art ship-based power system. The country has outperformed the US in the development of such systems, which are considered by military experts as a game-changing technology in naval hardware, he said.
"Compared with the US, we have better technologies in key parts, such as motor-control devices and power distribution software. We are leaders in the research and development of integrated electric power systems," he said.
Yin said that China now possesses proven technologies for both steam catapults and electromagnetic launch systems. He said the Navy's second domestically designed carrier will use a catapult system to assist takeoffs rather than the ski-jump mode.
The Chinese military has yet to announce details regarding the new carrier, but some observers speculate that construction will begin soon in Shanghai.
The PLA Navy's current carrier, the Liaoning, was refitted from a partially built Soviet ship. It went into service in September 2012 and has completed several long-range training exercises.
In late April, China put its first domestically developed carrier into the water at a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province. It is currently being fitted with equipment and undergoing tests. It is the largest and most sophisticated vessel yet for China. Its name will be announced once it is commissioned.
Both carriers have a displacement of 50,000 metric tons and employ the ski-jump mode for launching fixed-wing aircraft.
Wang Yanan, editor-in-chief of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, said that the use of a catapult enables a carrier to launch larger and heavier aircraft such as fixed-wing early-warning planes and allows fighter jets to carry more fuel and weapons.
He said electromagnetic launch systems are able to control the force of acceleration better than the old steam-powered design, and is safer for planes. They are also smaller and use less fuel than the steam-based devices, he said.
China develops a catapult for planes
2017-11-16 08:39 China Daily Editor: Li Yan
A J-15 fighter jet lands on CNS Liaoning in July. (Photo/Xinhua)
Electromagnetic system to boost carrier fleet's combat capability
China has developed its own version of a cutting-edge device previously possessed only by the United States and is poised to use it to boost its aircraft carrier fleet's combat capability.
The device, known as an electromagnetic launch system, or electromagnetic catapult, was designed by Chinese engineers to assist planes taking off from aircraft carriers. The system has been tested with J-15 carrier-borne fighter jets, according to Rear Admiral Yin Zhuo, director of the People's Liberation Army Navy's expert consultation committee.
He said on China Central Television recently that J-15s have made "thousands of takeoffs" using the electromagnetic launch system.
Before China developed its catapult, expertise in the technology had long been the domain of the United States, because of the system's complexity and sophistication.
Unlike taking off from a runway on the ground, fixed-wing aircraft on carriers need assistance from a special apparatus to take off because a flight deck is not long enough for a plane to gain sufficient speed to fly. Catapults give them an extra shove.
A steel cable attaches the plane to the catapult and drags it rapidly forward for takeoff. With older technology, the pulling force of the cable was powered by steam. Electromagnetic force provides an alternative solution that brings certain advantages.
China's midsize carrier, the CNS Liaoning, uses a ski-jump design for its takeoff ramp - with an upward slope at one end to increase the angle of a plane's wings, thereby generating lift. Large carriers, however, such as those deployed by the US Navy, use catapults.
Electromagnetic launch systems are believed to be the most advanced carrier-based technology for assisting takeoffs.
Yin said China was able to develop the device because its engineers have designed a state-of-the-art ship-based power system. The country has outperformed the US in the development of such systems, which are considered by military experts as a game-changing technology in naval hardware, he said.
"Compared with the US, we have better technologies in key parts, such as motor-control devices and power distribution software. We are leaders in the research and development of integrated electric power systems," he said.
Yin said that China now possesses proven technologies for both steam catapults and electromagnetic launch systems. He said the Navy's second domestically designed carrier will use a catapult system to assist takeoffs rather than the ski-jump mode.
The Chinese military has yet to announce details regarding the new carrier, but some observers speculate that construction will begin soon in Shanghai.
The PLA Navy's current carrier, the Liaoning, was refitted from a partially built Soviet ship. It went into service in September 2012 and has completed several long-range training exercises.
In late April, China put its first domestically developed carrier into the water at a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province. It is currently being fitted with equipment and undergoing tests. It is the largest and most sophisticated vessel yet for China. Its name will be announced once it is commissioned.
Both carriers have a displacement of 50,000 metric tons and employ the ski-jump mode for launching fixed-wing aircraft.
Wang Yanan, editor-in-chief of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, said that the use of a catapult enables a carrier to launch larger and heavier aircraft such as fixed-wing early-warning planes and allows fighter jets to carry more fuel and weapons.
He said electromagnetic launch systems are able to control the force of acceleration better than the old steam-powered design, and is safer for planes. They are also smaller and use less fuel than the steam-based devices, he said.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Probably true. If they built a static test site, I don't see how they wouldn't have test-launched thousands of times but they haven't tested it on a moving ship; that's for sure.Via cirr from pakdef. Admiral Yin Zhuo said China has tested emal for hundreds of times. true or false?
China develops a catapult for planes
2017-11-16 08:39 China Daily Editor: Li Yan
A J-15 fighter jet lands on CNS Liaoning in July. (Photo/Xinhua)
Electromagnetic system to boost carrier fleet's combat capability
China has developed its own version of a cutting-edge device previously possessed only by the United States and is poised to use it to boost its aircraft carrier fleet's combat capability.
The device, known as an electromagnetic launch system, or electromagnetic catapult, was designed by Chinese engineers to assist planes taking off from aircraft carriers. The system has been tested with J-15 carrier-borne fighter jets, according to Rear Admiral Yin Zhuo, director of the People's Liberation Army Navy's expert consultation committee.
He said on China Central Television recently that J-15s have made "thousands of takeoffs" using the electromagnetic launch system.
Before China developed its catapult, expertise in the technology had long been the domain of the United States, because of the system's complexity and sophistication.
Unlike taking off from a runway on the ground, fixed-wing aircraft on carriers need assistance from a special apparatus to take off because a flight deck is not long enough for a plane to gain sufficient speed to fly. Catapults give them an extra shove.
A steel cable attaches the plane to the catapult and drags it rapidly forward for takeoff. With older technology, the pulling force of the cable was powered by steam. Electromagnetic force provides an alternative solution that brings certain advantages.
China's midsize carrier, the CNS Liaoning, uses a ski-jump design for its takeoff ramp - with an upward slope at one end to increase the angle of a plane's wings, thereby generating lift. Large carriers, however, such as those deployed by the US Navy, use catapults.
Electromagnetic launch systems are believed to be the most advanced carrier-based technology for assisting takeoffs.
Yin said China was able to develop the device because its engineers have designed a state-of-the-art ship-based power system. The country has outperformed the US in the development of such systems, which are considered by military experts as a game-changing technology in naval hardware, he said.
"Compared with the US, we have better technologies in key parts, such as motor-control devices and power distribution software. We are leaders in the research and development of integrated electric power systems," he said.
Yin said that China now possesses proven technologies for both steam catapults and electromagnetic launch systems. He said the Navy's second domestically designed carrier will use a catapult system to assist takeoffs rather than the ski-jump mode.
The Chinese military has yet to announce details regarding the new carrier, but some observers speculate that construction will begin soon in Shanghai.
The PLA Navy's current carrier, the Liaoning, was refitted from a partially built Soviet ship. It went into service in September 2012 and has completed several long-range training exercises.
In late April, China put its first domestically developed carrier into the water at a shipyard in Dalian, Liaoning province. It is currently being fitted with equipment and undergoing tests. It is the largest and most sophisticated vessel yet for China. Its name will be announced once it is commissioned.
Both carriers have a displacement of 50,000 metric tons and employ the ski-jump mode for launching fixed-wing aircraft.
Wang Yanan, editor-in-chief of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, said that the use of a catapult enables a carrier to launch larger and heavier aircraft such as fixed-wing early-warning planes and allows fighter jets to carry more fuel and weapons.
He said electromagnetic launch systems are able to control the force of acceleration better than the old steam-powered design, and is safer for planes. They are also smaller and use less fuel than the steam-based devices, he said.
I cannot say if it is true of false.Via cirr from pakdef. Admiral Yin Zhuo said China has tested emal for hundreds of times. true or false?
China develops a catapult for planes
2017-11-16 08:39 China Daily Editor: Li Yan
A J-15 fighter jet lands on CNS Liaoning in July. (Photo/Xinhua)
Electromagnetic system to boost carrier fleet's combat capability
China has developed its own version of a cutting-edge device previously possessed only by the United States and is poised to use it to boost its aircraft carrier fleet's combat capability.
The device, known as an electromagnetic launch system, or electromagnetic catapult, was designed by Chinese engineers to assist planes taking off from aircraft carriers. The system has been tested with J-15 carrier-borne fighter jets, according to Rear Admiral Yin Zhuo, director of the People's Liberation Army Navy's expert consultation committee.
He said on China Central Television recently that J-15s have made "thousands of takeoffs" using the electromagnetic launch system.
Before China developed its catapult, expertise in the technology had long been the domain of the United States, because of the system's complexity and sophistication.
Unlike taking off from a runway on the ground, fixed-wing aircraft on carriers need assistance from a special apparatus to take off because a flight deck is not long enough for a plane to gain sufficient speed to fly. Catapults give them an extra shove.
A steel cable attaches the plane to the catapult and drags it rapidly forward for takeoff. With older technology, the pulling force of the cable was powered by steam. Electromagnetic force provides an alternative solution that brings certain advantages.
China's midsize carrier, the CNS Liaoning, uses a ski-jump design for its takeoff ramp - with an upward slope at one end to increase the angle of a plane's wings, thereby generating lift. Large carriers, however, such as those deployed by the US Navy, use catapults.
If they have had an operational and successfully working EMALS site operational on land for a few years, like the US does at joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, New Jersey...then it very well could be true.
We know they have a site...we just do not know for sure how well it has been operating.
The US site has been freely displayed and shown for many years now with the EMALS site there in New Jersey and we have seen all sorts of aircraft with about every conceivable loadout being tested there.
As I say, if the Chinese have done the same then they certainly could have launched several thousand times.
But we do not have that level of visibility into their site, so we can only guess or try and project what they have done.
Now the US has shown EMALS being successfully tested at sea on the USS Ford. Every week they do more testing and add more aircraft loadouts and numbers to the at sea test regiment...which is exactly what they should be doing for something new like this.
Even with the thousands of land launches, the US Navy had methodically taken its time and gone through the testing at sea like a brand new test regiment...which is what they should do to ensure that every conceivable condition is tested, and that any adjustments are determined and made in that test environment so that the policies and procedures can be worked out and then delivered to the fleet as the new Ford carriers are rolled out.
One day we will see a Chinese carrier built and then launched that uses catapults.
It sounds like they may go straight to EMALs, and that would be good for China if they do.
One thing is for sure...if they do build that first CATOBAR carrier with EMALS, then we will pretty much know for sure that the land site has been very successful and that they have in fact done those thousands of launches.
I've read some different reports about the Admiral's claims. Some say that he said "hundreds" of take offs have been made, while some say "thousands" had been made.
Considering the catapult track at Huangdicun only finished construction about a year and a bit ago, I find it doubtful as to whether thousands of launches could have been made on that track. That would mean having a half dozen launches on the catapult track every day.
And as far as we know, only one catapult compatible "J-15T" airframe has been built. Even if we consider the possibility of 2-3 total J-15T airframes, that still makes "thousands" of launches seem a bit much.
I would be interested in seeing the original interview to confirm what Yin Zhuo actually said. I would also add that his words do not always have the best track record.
......
However, regardless of what the Admiral says on television, I personally think it is very reasonable for at least "hundreds" of launches to have been completed at the test track.
We obviously don't have any pictures or videos of launches being completed, but that is to be expected, considering when the catapult tracks were completed, and considering the catapults were likely not "prototypes" but rather more like trial models meant to compete against each other as part of the catapult competition.
In fact, it is rather amazing that they are coming out and openly talking about the EM catapult at all.
That is quite a break from previous years in terms of secrecy for these sort of important subsystems, and it suggests a high degree of confidence in the system.
Agreed.
Time will tell us for sure.
If the next carrier is CATOBAR and has EMALS, then we will know that they are indeed absolutely and completely satisfied with it.
If not, then I will wonder whether or not thousands of launches ever occurred.
I wonder about that number at this point as it is...and as I say, agree that at least hundreds is very possible if they have been happy with what they have developed and are testing it. If they have, I would expect that by now more than one J-15 has been put together for cat launch.
Do you have any chatter on 002 and its building? I really expect to start hearing about another carrier being started soon with the second carrier proceeding towards trials like it is.