CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

[Tam]

Tweet by Global Times showing J-15s taking off and landing on the Shandong.

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[Deino]

Any reason for the ship to be back at the shipyard ?

Not only in the shipyard, but in the drydock!?

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[Tam]

Like I said, an inspection, which can be routine to examine any effects the tropical environment has with the ships. If not an inspection, something went wrong to warrant such an action. Its not a problem that is deep enough to stop her from rushing across the Straits. It might something minor but they are not willing to take any chances on it.

 

[asif iqbal]

This depends on the length of time it is in the dry dock

if it’s a few days then it’s a normal inspection

over a week and it’s a serious issue

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Like I said, an inspection, which can be routine to examine any effects the tropical environment has with the ships. If not an inspection, something went wrong to warrant such an action. Its not a problem that is deep enough to stop her from rushing across the Straits. It might something minor but they are not willing to take any chances on it.

Yeah but should not such trials and inspections be done before the ship is delivered to the navy. I know that the ship never sailed to a tropical enviroment before but I find it hard to believe that such a loophole in consideration would had slipped from the PLAN's mind. Considering that CV-17's homeport was planned to be at Sanya for years beforehand.
Either way this is not a great news for the ship.

 

[lcloo]

I expected Shandong to go to the dry dock before commissioning, but it didn't. And now very likely it will undergo the scrapping of marine shell growth as well as a fresh coat of red paint at the below waterline hull.

I guess they are combining the scrapping & painting, with the first mileage maintenance in one single go.

 

[Tam]

Yeah but should not such trials and inspections be done before the ship is delivered to the navy. I know that the ship never sailed to a tropical enviroment before but I find it hard to believe that such a loophole in consideration would had slipped from the PLAN's mind. Considering that CV-17's homeport was planned to be at Sanya for years beforehand.
Either way this is not a great news for the ship.

I don't think CV17's homeport is going to be Sanya at all. The whole idea why the name Shandong has been speculated and rightly so, is because Shandong is the province whose capital is Qingdao, and Qingdao is likely the base of the second carrier, which is where Liaoning is also based and is the home base of the NSF. But you can't call the carrier Qingdao, as provincial capitals are reserved for destroyers, so the carriers will go with provincial names.

So once the carrier is named Shandong, its certain its stay in Sanya is temporary, and its home base is going to be Qingdao.

Liaoning is named after the province of Liaoning, whose capital is, guess what --- Dalian.

Which means you have two precedents. You name the carrier from the province which it was born, or you name the carrier from the province it would likely be stationed.

Already people are betting the odds for the third carrier's name:

Guangdong, the province for which the SSF is HQ'ed.

Shanghai, which is the municipality Changxing Island is located, where Jiangnan Shipyards is. Municipality might be equal to province in status. Otherwise, the nearest province would be Zhejiang and Jiangsu. The problem of this is that Changxing is under the Shanghai Municipality but we have not seen a Chinese navy ship named after municipality. The provinces bordering Changxing island would be Zhejiang to the east and Jiangsu to the north. But technically, 003 isn't born in either.

Hainan, the province where Sanya and the Liuyi naval base is located.

Shandong was expected to return to Qingdao or Dalian, but I expected for this to happen only by January or February.

The thing that comes to my mind about this is what happened to the Royal Navy Type 45 destroyers when they hit warmer waters.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

I don't think CV17's homeport is going to be Sanya at all. The whole idea why the name Shandong has been speculated and rightly so, is because Shandong is the province whose capital is Qingdao, and Qingdao is likely the base of the second carrier, which is where Liaoning is also based and is the home base of the NSF. But you can't call the carrier Qingdao, as provincial capitals are reserved for destroyers, so the carriers will go with provincial names.

So once the carrier is named Shandong, its certain its stay in Sanya is temporary, and its home base is going to be Qingdao.

Liaoning is named after the province of Liaoning, whose capital is, guess what --- Dalian.

Which means you have two precedents. You name the carrier from the province which it was born, or you name the carrier from the province it would likely be stationed.

Already people are betting the odds for the third carrier's name:

Guangdong, the province for which the SSF is HQ'ed.

Shanghai, which is the municipality Changxing Island is located, where Jiangnan Shipyards is. Municipality might be equal to province in status. Otherwise, the nearest province would be Zhejiang and Jiangsu. The problem of this is that Changxing is under the Shanghai Municipality but we have not seen a Chinese navy ship named after municipality. The provinces bordering Changxing island would be Zhejiang to the east and Jiangsu to the north. But technically, 003 isn't born in either.

Hainan, the province where Sanya and the Liuyi naval base is located.

Shandong was expected to return to Qingdao or Dalian, but I expected for this to happen only by January or February.

The thing that comes to my mind about this is what happened to the Royal Navy Type 45 destroyers when they hit warmer waters.

On the other hand, Liaoning was considered to be a "trainer" aircraft carrier as of such is not attached to any of the three fleets in the PLAN, and that the PLAN's school for naval aviators is in Qingdao which is nearby. It may be that the location of the Liaoning's port is more for pragmatism in supporting and developing the fledgling PLAN carrier force than any real indication of how the PLAN plans to station their carriers. That and the fact that Liaoning because of the age of it's hull and its role in designing the Shandong requires it to be at hand near at Dalian.
And if Qingdao is supposed to be the homeport for the Shandong, then why go to all the trouble getting the ship to Sanya for commissioning and then sailing it back ? China rarely does such symbolic gestures without any pre-planning or intentions.
Regardless it is too early to come to a conclusion , with just 2 carriers in service and the latter being placed back in the drydock so soon after commissioning rather than an actual naval base.

 

[Tam]

On the other hand, Liaoning was considered to be a "trainer" aircraft carrier as of such is not attached to any of the three fleets in the PLAN, and that the PLAN's school for naval aviators is in Qingdao which is nearby. It may be that the location of the Liaoning's port is more for pragmatism in supporting and developing the fledgling PLAN carrier force than any real indication of how the PLAN plans to station their carriers. That and the fact that Liaoning because of the age of it's hull and its role in designing the Shandong requires it to be at hand near at Dalian.
And if Qingdao is supposed to be the homeport for the Shandong, then why go to all the trouble getting the ship to Sanya for commissioning and then sailing it back ? China rarely does such symbolic gestures without any pre-planning or intentions.
Regardless it is too early to come to a conclusion , with just 2 carriers in service and the latter being placed back in the drydock so soon after commissioning rather than an actual naval base.

Liaoning is attached to the NSF, and so will be Shandong.

Qingdao isn't a training naval base. It is by itself, probably the PLAN's most important naval base.

Only Qingdao and Sanya have the ports deep enough for the carriers. Qingdao's naval base isn't just for training, this --- formerly Port Arthur --- was considered to be the most strategic port in Northeast Asia to have been the focus of the Russo-Japanese war. Being the closest to the capital and guarding the sea route to it, makes it the most important. Northeast China is one of three mega-regions in China.

The Northern Bohai Sea acts as a shield and gateway to the Beijing-Tianjin capital region and megacity. The province of Shandong is also one of the most prosperous in the country. This sea also stretches to North Korea so control of this sea is important for any intervention in the Korean peninsula.

Another thing is that we don't know what the speed the Shandong sustained coming through the Taiwan Strait twice. How fast did it go and for how long? Liaoning has sustained fast runs past the Miyako Straits and through the straits in both northern and southern Philippines, and at the south of Taiwan. Maybe its not about getting the Shandong to Sanya, the whole purpose was the trip itself.

The PLAN released a video showing aircraft taking off from the Shandong, quite possibly with the ship in full speed. Aircraft may have been taking off and landing during those runs.

Why send the carrier to Sanya? Sanya is the only other port deep enough for carriers, and has been routinely visited by the Liaoning. The naval base there has further been renovated, so this can be a test of the base itself as well as the carrier. This is where the carrier 003 will likely to be.

The Shandong hasn't seen dry dock for a long while either, since before her own trials. So some maintenance may already be needed or scheduled, including defouling and scrapping off the barnacle growth.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Liaoning is attached to the NSF, and so will be Shandong.

Let us see where the Qingdao will end up before we make that conclusion. And insofar from both Chinese and English publications that I have read, they usually list the Liaoning as "PLAN navy ship" instead of any of the 3 sea's fleet prefix. While certain publications list the Liaoning among the inventory of the NSF it is more likely that they are lumping the ship in just by location. In fact some of the more easily accessed site had already listed the Shandong as belonging to the SSF.

Qingdao isn't a training naval base. It is by itself, probably the PLAN's most important naval base.

It is however the location for the PLAN naval aviator training center, which can explain why the Liaoning is deployed close by. Sanya base in my opinion ranks in equal importance to Qingdao.

Only Qingdao and Sanya have the ports deep enough for the carriers. Qingdao's naval base isn't just for training, this --- formerly Port Arthur --- was considered to be the most strategic port in Northeast Asia to have been the focus of the Russo-Japanese war. Being the closest to the capital and guarding the sea route to it, makes it the most important. Northeast China is one of three mega-regions in China.

The Northern Bohai Sea acts as a shield and gateway to the Beijing-Tianjin capital region and megacity. The province of Shandong is also one of the most prosperous in the country. This sea also stretches to North Korea so control of this sea is important for any intervention in the Korean peninsula.

Agree with the first, but again Qingdao is the base for PLAN naval aviation training. And Sanya overlooks the Melaka Strait of which more than half of China's oil supply traverse as well as the majority of it's exports to Africa and Europe. Sanya is in no way any less important than Qingdao.

Another thing is that we don't know what the speed the Shandong sustained coming through the Taiwan Strait twice. How fast did it go and for how long? Liaoning has sustained fast runs past the Miyako Straits and through the straits in both northern and southern Philippines, and at the south of Taiwan. Maybe its not about getting the Shandong to Sanya, the whole purpose was the trip itself.

I don't quite understand this passage, does the speed of a ship traversing the strait plays a role in determining it's home port ? I would say that what speed or route the ship takes depends on the political decision at Beijing as well as the list of warming exercises and test that the ship's crew was required to take.

The PLAN released a video showing aircraft taking off from the Shandong, quite possibly with the ship in full speed. Aircraft may have been taking off and landing during those runs.

Again I don't see how this factor's into the location of Shandong's homeport ?

Why send the carrier to Sanya? Sanya is the only other port deep enough for carriers, and has been routinely visited by the Liaoning. The naval base there has further been renovated, so this can be a test of the base itself as well as the carrier. This is where the carrier 003 will likely to be.

The Shandong has only been there for just one visit and a rather brief one I might add. If the PLAN was intending to test out the base it would be better to station the Shandong there longer, as to give the base personal on hand experience as well. And the Shandong can just visit Sanya after it was commissioned at Qingdao if that was it's intended homeport like how Liaoning had done in the past.

The Shandong hasn't seen dry dock for a long while either, since before her own trials. So some maintenance may already be needed or scheduled, including defouling and scrapping off the barnacle growth.

Only serious maintenance would require the use of a dry dock, besides barnacle growth is pretty much a minor issue for major navies at this point. Anti growth paint for ship bottoms are advanced to the point where serious scraping are not required.