Current Limitations of the PLAN

Well As for the taking time in building up a strong naval precense is quite obvious and im sure PLAN staff knows this stuff...But its totally different thing to choose rigth path tho dominance. Time is one thing, doing the rigth choices are another and worst cases time can be the most cripling factor when you notice that some big and expensive way to achieve something turns to be complete waste of time and money. Soviet Unions carrier plans are great example of this. PLAN is now in the edge of those decisions and slow and carefull way to handle things isent automaticly the best and rigth way...
This is specially tru with carriers. Im conviced that china should go in for soon as possiple, finish up the Varyag and begin to introduce naval aviation lagacy for future generations. Soviets tryed the crawl-walk-run accpect and it proved that in those years were complete waste. At the end, VMF was left with in state of learning and trying that didnt much required decades of slow introduction. Those mistakes that they have made with Kuznetsov could have been done in the fiftyes with out the extensive 'practicing' with Kievs and Moskvas... I severly fear that china migth make a same mistake and miss the chnage of life with Varyag. No unused russian carrers would be awaible in bargain prices in near future any longer, and some time, they just have to make the decission, and no pre-introduction can effectively parshe out all the beginers mistakes. Learn by doing!

Also, about training and conscription system. I have to agree with Popeye, NCO doing long time service are the key element in operating extensive equipment and its also main down fall of conscription armyes. USSR suffered it, And we finns do it also. In conscription system, NCOs are merely better trained service mens that serve bit longer than normal crew, but still enters reserve along with them. In finnish army, there are short time servicing former consrcript NCOs whit year- or two deal (they are the far most brickiest type of people existing, total human carbage...sorry, but thats what htey were, at least in my regiment ) Some how all career soldiers are typed as officers and requiring extensive academic training...

Major weakness lack of effective asw may be improved if we buy the fearless class destoryer sort of ok in the past as the enemy is Taiwan but will be in the future

fearless? doesnt ring a bell. there was a fearless class assaut ship from the falklands, and a fearless class from ww2.

currently, chinas neighbors are very weak with submarines. but thats going to change with japan, sout korea, and india. china better hurrry to develop advanced sonars.

fearless= Udaloy in Russian I think not sure you can ask Akula

glory=slava

are u talking about the improved udaloy that ukraine is offering, or a udaloy II basic?

the udaloy is pretty good at asw, but as past events show, the chinese can build anything better than the russians if they put their minds to it. buying russian weapons is a sign of laziness.

they can be used to boost numders like the sove/052b also china does not have much experince in builting large asw ships buy a small number then built your oewn equilvent like the sove and 052b

ps whats up with that deal any news on the udaloy

there was news that ukraine was offering to build this baby for any customer


not a bad deal. good sams, ashm, and asw. not to mention something the ukraininas never showed before: stealth.

i thin china's better off building its own asw cruser, but perhaps a single ship ordered from ukraine would seve as a good example. the ship ought to cost around 800-900 million $, and would take 5 years to build.

Yes the PLAN does have it's short commings. But you can't build a blue water navy over night. They have come a long way in the last few years. In the future when the PLAN overcomes it's shortcommings it will be a force to be reckoned with.

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The question is why? Why do you want to make a blue water force? You don't need to grab Taiwan with a blue water force, and China does not appear to have any other military ambition other than that. How does a blue water force benefit China? What benefit does it get to play global cop? No signs China wants to do this, better lay that burden to another country's taxpayer base instead. Will a blue water navy help to feed your unborn billions in the future?

the reason that china wants a blue water navy is not to become the next world police, but to ensure resource and energy supply lines. china is becoming more and more dependent on resource and oil imports, and in order to make sure nothing goes wrong from middle east or africa to china, blue water navy is needed.

Yes but it would be better for that case if China develops intercontinental routes for such instead like trans siberian pipelines. Who are you trying to protect your water supply lines from? If you want to go to war with your main trading partners like the US or Japan your economy is goosed anyway. You can't be a blue water navy without a huge military budget and these kinds of budgets are at the expense of social programs that can be better put to use to assure domestic stability.