Crisis in the Ukraine

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pla101prc

Senior Member
ukraine forces is going through a total meltdown...i think the military term for this is "cognitive-strategic collapse", well not quite there but almost.

i honest believe that the rebels might be tempering with going all the way to melitopoli now. not only does it link russian mainland up with crimea, it also opens a whole bunch of options with regards to going north to zaporozhe. if i were ukraine and i know i cant hold mariupol, i would start building up around melitopoli like right now.
 

delft

Brigadier
I imagine that the number of militia men has increased very significantly to make this offensive possible. It probably means that many Ukrainians went to Russia when LPR and DPR declared themselves independent and have now been trained and taken up the fight.
 
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I wonder if Jura is ready to concede that the militia are indeed gaining ground now?

I saw this punch coming :) but on last Tuesday, after you had made your prediction, I said two weeks: http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-41-6939.html#post301233 and don't worry, I'd applaud you on, let me see the calendar, September 2

and you sure are doing well so far, for example, what appeared to be "a strategic goal" announced by Separatists on Saturday evening http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-45-6939.html#post301806, I mean the control of the Donetsk Oblast -- Russia border, seems to have been achieved by yesterday:
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... just one addition to Separatists' achievements you've already praised in your posts
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
Yet more classic progaganda spin tactics by the western media in the reporting of this crisis.

First we had months of an effective news blackout with only the very few 'reportable' regime victories getting any mention other than your cookie cutter smear stories about the separatist/Russia shooting down the airline.

Now they got a tiny propaganda coup in the capture of the wayward Russian patrol and we can see there appears to be the start of a concerted effort to piggy back on that and effectively 'dump' all of the news about Ukraine regime losses they have been holding back for the last few months and try to not only blame that on direct Russian involvement, but also use the huge reverses from the western media's previous party line position of the situation as evidence of Russian involvement.

I bet the editors think they are so clever coming up with such a rouse.

Just look at the headline articles on the BBC if you want proof, but I won't bother reporting such drivel here.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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I found this via Cassad and think it will be very helpful in burning the latest propaganda and PR. It is a animation of the SITREP maps for the last month and comes with English Sub Titles.

[video=youtube_share;8g-l4NlR2L4]http://youtu.be/8g-l4NlR2L4[/video]

It is also worth remembering that the main Urban areas of Donetsk/Lugansk hold about 5 million people. This is an area of Heavy Industry and Heavy Engineering.
This means that there is a large male physically strong workforce, many of whom have basic military training and are used to working with/maintaining heavy industrial/mechanical equipment. These kinds of guys adapt to military needs very quickly and such areas in all countries are considered primary military recruiting ground.

It is true that relatively small numbers showed any initial interest in joining the militia. I think we can safely assume that this changed in July when the full Ukrainian army arrived in force and started deliberate shelling of places of work, civilian utilities ans infrastructure and of course residential areas.
It is hardly a surprise that militia numbers have swelled dramatically since July.

I notice the words from Washington are "Russian Co-ordination". That is probably fair enough. Take this to mean Financial Support (the ability to pay forces also improved recruitment significantly), Unofficial advisor's and trainning and of course up to the minute intelligence. The notion of Russian volunteers is currently being fanfared, but we have watched video of volunteers arriving in the Donbass for months, so we can only but question why professional journalists have only just noticed.

Finally of course, to prove direct Russian military involvement must now be the only remaining possible objective still available to the West, in justify having started this whole sorry affair. I think it highly unlikely the Mr Putin will be about to casually give it to them.
 

delft

Brigadier
Hardly on topic:
For a laugh you might look at the map on the BBC site, for example at
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It shows "Previous extent of rebel control" and "Approximate area remaining under rebel control" and wide outside even the "Previous extent" there are Novoazovsk and Mariupol of which the article says "...as pro-Russian rebels captured the seaside town of Novoazovsk and threatened to take the strategic port city of Mariupol".
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
I imagine that the number of militia men has increased very significantly to make this offensive possible. It probably means that many Ukrainians went to Russia when LPR and DPR declared themselves independent and have now been trained and taken up the fight.

good insight, i imagine there has gotta be more than a couple thousands of able-bodied male who have escaped to russia and struggled to live in some camp and thus decided to make a run for it and accept training to join the rebels. at least this way if they live to the end of the war there might be something in it for them.
 

delft

Brigadier
Back to MH17:
My Dutch newspaper carries today an article about the identification of the victims of the crash and it says among other things that the human remains have been treated with more respect and care than initially thought. They have been treated with ample formaline to keep them better. "It seems that a professional was concerned in it but it is unknown who that was."
It reads as if they thought the aircraft fell amongst savages.
 
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... The notion of Russian volunteers is currently being fanfared, but we have watched video of volunteers arriving in the Donbass for months, so we can only but question why professional journalists have only just noticed.

...

I just came back from work so I don't who fanfared what, but before lunch I had chance to watch this (comes from a Russian TV station):
[video]http://www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=616923[/video]
where
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says for him also Active Duty Russian Military are fighting, who are on holidays and instead of going to a beach, they joined his forces ... I'm not kidding you, this particular part starts at 01:28 I now checked -- native Russian speakers would confirm this (if they understood his thick accent -- now I'm kidding :)

Now I'll go through a couple of news-servers of a former Eastern Bloc ...
 
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