Equation
Lieutenant General
True, but either way where was the Russian air support from their attacking helicopters supposed to be spotting any enemy armor attack vehicles and artillery?
Crisis in the Ukraine
- Thread starter bd popeye
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True, but either way where was the Russian air support from their attacking helicopters supposed to be spotting any enemy armor attack vehicles and artillery?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
That's the question. Oh and remember those reports that Igor Strelkov resigned? IT's back in the news with Russian confirmation
The Russian counter is out on the Claim of a Armored incursion by Russian forces. It's almost Word for word What Sampan said... I am starting to suspect his IP address leads to the Kremlin... If not I know there are a few openings at RT
I tease.
.
The Russian counter is out on the Claim of a Armored incursion by Russian forces. It's almost Word for word What Sampan said... I am starting to suspect his IP address leads to the Kremlin... If not I know there are a few openings at RT
I tease.
This is more like it
The Sit Rep and map for Aug 15th courtesy of Gleb Bazov via the Sakers website
It shows that the new cauldron in the South is formed, following the DPR's seizure of the Marinovka border crossing checkpoint. It also claims that the breakout squad from Lughansk Airport has been repulsed from the Krasnodon.
I now post the map and full official Novorossiya briefing
Map: Hostilities in Novorossiya, August 6-15, 2014
There is a notable increase in confidence today and the comments about the Ukrainian army running out of steam has resonance. I think it is undeniable that the lack of tangible and verifiable results from the Ukrainian offensive speaks for itself. It also once again calls into question the casualty figures put out by Kiev. If only 500 have been killed so far, how come they have not made significantly more progress than they have?
I am aware that Kiev is being attributed to also saying that there are over 3500 MIA's. If this is true (and there is no doubt where these guys are) then this is far more likely to the reality given the scale of destruction we have seen rained down on them.
The Sit Rep and map for Aug 15th courtesy of Gleb Bazov via the Sakers website
It shows that the new cauldron in the South is formed, following the DPR's seizure of the Marinovka border crossing checkpoint. It also claims that the breakout squad from Lughansk Airport has been repulsed from the Krasnodon.
I now post the map and full official Novorossiya briefing
Map: Hostilities in Novorossiya, August 6-15, 2014
There is a notable increase in confidence today and the comments about the Ukrainian army running out of steam has resonance. I think it is undeniable that the lack of tangible and verifiable results from the Ukrainian offensive speaks for itself. It also once again calls into question the casualty figures put out by Kiev. If only 500 have been killed so far, how come they have not made significantly more progress than they have?
I am aware that Kiev is being attributed to also saying that there are over 3500 MIA's. If this is true (and there is no doubt where these guys are) then this is far more likely to the reality given the scale of destruction we have seen rained down on them.
This is more like it
The Sit Rep and map for Aug 15th courtesy of Gleb Bazov via the Sakers website
It shows that the new cauldron in the South is formed, following the DPR's seizure of the Marinovka border crossing checkpoint. It also claims that the breakout squad from Lughansk Airport has been repulsed from the Krasnodon.
I now post the map and full official Novorossiya briefing
Map: Hostilities in Novorossiya, August 6-15, 2014
There is a notable increase in confidence today and the comments about the Ukrainian army running out of steam has resonance. I think it is undeniable that the lack of tangible and verifiable results from the Ukrainian offensive speaks for itself. It also once again calls into question the casualty figures put out by Kiev. If only 500 have been killed so far, how come they have not made significantly more progress than they have?
I am aware that Kiev is being attributed to also saying that there are over 3500 MIA's. If this is true (and there is no doubt where these guys are) then this is far more likely to the reality given the scale of destruction we have seen rained down on them.
see i dont know about the revelation of 3500 MIA. should it there be even a modicum of plausbility to this assertion i suspect the russians would have jumped all over it. so far i have not seen that.
the truth is casualty in this war has become a matter of strategic significance in this confrontation, similar to US occupation of iraq. i had once lived in ukraine for a while and i can say with confidence that the majority of ukrainians dont give a rats ass about their country, much less the part in which the population does not identify with it. the willingness to sacrifice in any form (ie family going to war, taxes, bad economy) is simply not there. the only reason that the population has tolerated the war thus far is because the fall of sloviansk has given them a reason to believe that ukraine can win it and do it quickly. Thus, to win the war, the rebels need to 1. cripple ukraine's national morale by inflicting massive casualty against its army and 2. demonstrate to the ukrainian population and the international community that this war cannot be finished quickly, at least before winter. this can be achieved partly through 1.
which brings me back to the point of the strategic implications of casualty on ukraine's side. if there was any reasonable ground to accuse kiev of downplaying its casualty figures, this should be something of significant value to the russians and they would have attempted to use it to galvanize ukraine's public opinion against the war. and the only reason that the assertion of such exaggerated figure was not aggressively propagated would have been because there was no reasonable ground to suspect it.
kiev claimed to have destroyed the russian column with artillery fire. I for one highly doubt that they have such capability, in this day and age, to accomplish such feat. the prerequisite to hit a small moving convoy in an area not under its control is a little steep for the ukrainian forces.
Question: Could you please comment on the status of the delivery of Russian humanitarian relief aid to the people of southeastern Ukraine?
Sergey Lavrov: In the past few days, we have been addressing the humanitarian crisis in southeastern Ukraine, as instructed by Russian President Vladimir Putin. We drafted a plan in cooperation with the Ukrainian authorities, the International Committee of the Red Cross and the representatives of other international organisations, including the UN and the OSCE, and the plan was finalised yesterday. At the same time, we followed all of Ukraine’s requirements without exception, including the route suggested by Kiev, although this route is much longer than the other routes used for delivering humanitarian relief aid. Nevertheless, we have accepted the route which suits the government in Kiev, we have agreed to install Ukrainian vehicle license plates on Ukrainian territory, and we have agreed that not only representatives from the ICRC and the OSCE but also Ukrainian officials should ride in the trucks carrying the humanitarian relief consignment. Everything has been agreed. We have sent an official note to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, requesting permission to set out, and the convoy has already set out. Today we received a note confirming that Ukraine was ready to accept this assistance. I hope very much that certain public statements voiced by a few officials in Kiev today that demand new terms will be disavowed, and that they will not hinder the implementation of the agreement reached between the Russian Federation, Ukraine and the ICRC.
ICRC representatives will meet the convoy at the Ukrainian border and in a populated area that has been agreed with the Ukrainian authorities. They will inspect the consignment, and will ride with the convoy to its final destination, primarily in the Lugansk Region.
Question: Does anyone plan to reload the entire humanitarian relief consignment, as has been noted today?
Sergey Lavrov: The issue of reloading the consignment from all 287 trucks onto those hired by the ICRC was raised during our talks with Ukraine. For obvious reasons, they decided against this due to the added difficulty and expense.
As I said, the consignment will be inspected at the Ukrainian port of entry. Representatives of the OSCE, the ICRC and Ukrainian authorities will ride with the convoy. I hope that there will be no complications. Here is one important thing (we are strongly relying on the assurances given to us by the Ukrainian authorities): they guarantee the convoy’s safe passage through the territory controlled by Ukrainian law enforcement agencies. Naturally, we expect the resistance forces to act accordingly to this humanitarian project, and we have sent out certain messages to them. I am confident that there will be no mistakes on their part. They are in an area where residents need urgent relief. It is already hard to deny this. The Western media is beginning to offer detailed coverage of the situation, although grudgingly, and to show the horrors facing the civilian population.
Just yesterday, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) issued a new bulletin assessing the rather sad humanitarian situation in the Lugansk and Donetsk regions. Thousands of people have been killed, and thousands more wounded. There is no electricity or drinking water, it is impossible to ensure the operation of hospitals, retirement homes and other social infrastructure facilities. Even those who previously voiced a rather restrained stance on these developments are beginning to tell the truth, although belatedly. I would like to thank the Russian journalists who have made a tremendous contribution so that the truth can, at last, resound from the various pages of newspapers, TV screens and international organisations.
Sergey Lavrov: In the past few days, we have been addressing the humanitarian crisis in southeastern Ukraine, as instructed by Russian President Vladimir Putin. We drafted a plan in cooperation with the Ukrainian authorities, the International Committee of the Red Cross and the representatives of other international organisations, including the UN and the OSCE, and the plan was finalised yesterday. At the same time, we followed all of Ukraine’s requirements without exception, including the route suggested by Kiev, although this route is much longer than the other routes used for delivering humanitarian relief aid. Nevertheless, we have accepted the route which suits the government in Kiev, we have agreed to install Ukrainian vehicle license plates on Ukrainian territory, and we have agreed that not only representatives from the ICRC and the OSCE but also Ukrainian officials should ride in the trucks carrying the humanitarian relief consignment. Everything has been agreed. We have sent an official note to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, requesting permission to set out, and the convoy has already set out. Today we received a note confirming that Ukraine was ready to accept this assistance. I hope very much that certain public statements voiced by a few officials in Kiev today that demand new terms will be disavowed, and that they will not hinder the implementation of the agreement reached between the Russian Federation, Ukraine and the ICRC.
ICRC representatives will meet the convoy at the Ukrainian border and in a populated area that has been agreed with the Ukrainian authorities. They will inspect the consignment, and will ride with the convoy to its final destination, primarily in the Lugansk Region.
Question: Does anyone plan to reload the entire humanitarian relief consignment, as has been noted today?
Sergey Lavrov: The issue of reloading the consignment from all 287 trucks onto those hired by the ICRC was raised during our talks with Ukraine. For obvious reasons, they decided against this due to the added difficulty and expense.
As I said, the consignment will be inspected at the Ukrainian port of entry. Representatives of the OSCE, the ICRC and Ukrainian authorities will ride with the convoy. I hope that there will be no complications. Here is one important thing (we are strongly relying on the assurances given to us by the Ukrainian authorities): they guarantee the convoy’s safe passage through the territory controlled by Ukrainian law enforcement agencies. Naturally, we expect the resistance forces to act accordingly to this humanitarian project, and we have sent out certain messages to them. I am confident that there will be no mistakes on their part. They are in an area where residents need urgent relief. It is already hard to deny this. The Western media is beginning to offer detailed coverage of the situation, although grudgingly, and to show the horrors facing the civilian population.
Just yesterday, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) issued a new bulletin assessing the rather sad humanitarian situation in the Lugansk and Donetsk regions. Thousands of people have been killed, and thousands more wounded. There is no electricity or drinking water, it is impossible to ensure the operation of hospitals, retirement homes and other social infrastructure facilities. Even those who previously voiced a rather restrained stance on these developments are beginning to tell the truth, although belatedly. I would like to thank the Russian journalists who have made a tremendous contribution so that the truth can, at last, resound from the various pages of newspapers, TV screens and international organisations.
Dizasta1
Senior Member
Heard yesterday, a british "online radio", who simply jumped at the rumor that Russian armored column that crossed into Ukrainian territory, destroyed by Ukrainian military. I was amused by the manner in which this supposedly popular radio talk-show, was sensationalizing the whole news. Every caller on that radio show, seemed to have blindly believed that the Russians had actually mounted an actual invasion of Ukraine.
The worse thing about this, was the lack of objectivity and investigative questioning to verify the authenticity of such a rumor/news headline.
I could only imagine the pandemonium that must have erupted at FOX News. The rather eccentric and juvenile news channel, must have been raving and ranting about the news, over and over again.
Sometimes I really wonder, what the world would be like, if saner minds prevailed and dominated this planet. Perhaps in such a society, the word "war" would not exist!!
The worse thing about this, was the lack of objectivity and investigative questioning to verify the authenticity of such a rumor/news headline.
I could only imagine the pandemonium that must have erupted at FOX News. The rather eccentric and juvenile news channel, must have been raving and ranting about the news, over and over again.
Sometimes I really wonder, what the world would be like, if saner minds prevailed and dominated this planet. Perhaps in such a society, the word "war" would not exist!!
thunderchief
Senior Member
In reality, Ukrainian forces suffered heavy loses in past few days, so they probably slowed down or completely halted their offensive.
Sorry but link removed as far too graphic for a family forum like SDF
Sampanviking
Sorry but link removed as far too graphic for a family forum like SDF
Sampanviking
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