Corvette/Light frigate thread (056A, sub-4000t FFLs)

lcloo

Captain
One significant thing about this mysterious corvette is that there was no pre-sighting rumour about a new class of corvette/light frigate for PLA Navy. This is very uncommon in PLA watching. This meant outside people with some connection with PLA navy had no info on this ship prior to sighting.

And small or poorer nations which cannot afford to acquire and operate large ships like destroyers (due to finance and logistic facilitities) always tend to arm their largest available ships to the teeth. They will equip the most powerful weapon that can be squeezed into the whatever available space in and on the hull. An example is the Assad class corvette.

Personally, I think this is an export ship designed to the requirement of a foreign navy.
 
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Lethe

Captain
Given the total lack of any kind of information other than the visual evidence of its existence, all of this wild speculation strikes me as premature in the extreme. Is the pressure to say something so strong that people prefer to say something useless?

A potential future light frigate for PLAN that would succeed 056 and complement 054A/B has been a recurring topic of discussion going back many years, as with my own thoughts from 2017 on desirable characteristics for a future FFL -- characteristics that appear almost entirely compatible with the vessel that now appears before us, I might add. Although we can draw few definite conclusions from the appearance of this vessel, not least of all because we do not know if it is merely a test ship (though I think the presence of HHQ-10 argues against this) or intended for an export client, it is entirely to be expected that it would both rejuvenate and inform that broader discussion. So long as folks clearly label their speculations as such, I don't see the harm. If no further material evidence emerges to further inform, narrow or recast the range of possibilities, the discussion will draw naturally to a close, just as it has in the past.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think there is another case to be made for this new ship potentially being an arsenal ship. Aside from the cost per VLS consideration by AndrewS. Considering the likely combat conditions if a potential war in the near future breaks out, the likelihood of this conflict being close to the home coast is very high, also a larger number of small arsenal ships with one command and control destroyer (52s and 55s) could provide the swarm / over saturation tactic a new level of deadliness.

imagine that we have one destroyer as a command and control along with a few to a dozen of these arsenal ships as a battle group swarming a carrier battle group from multiple directions and splitting both the offensive and defensive assets of the enemy battle group that can be focused on any one direction. Additionally, the lost of any of the small arsenal ship would be much more acceptable than losing a 52 or 55.

Furthermore, rearming has always been an issue of VLS as it take quite some time to rearm, by splitting the concentration of the VLS onto more ships, it allows more tube to be rearm simultaneously at port, it should provide a better up time during war time conditions, assuming missile production can keep up.

Once again, you do not need a 055 or 052D for command and control for a whole bunch of heavy missile corvettes. Which by the way isn't a novel arsenal ship concept. This is the old Soviet missile warship concept through and through. This is exactly what the Tarantuls and Moliniyas do, although they are between the edge of a Corvette or a FAC. These craft can be loaded with as many as eight Sunburns or in a moderned form, 16 Kh-35 Urans.

The idea of missile ships protecting the coast assymetrically against a larger navy is an old one going back to the Soviets. It's only we replaced slant missile launchers to VLS. This idea is still with the Russians today and the PLAN can easily get exposed with these ideas through their exercises with the Russian Far East Fleet which has a number of these ships exactly in mind to do such tasks.

When you are fighting in the home coast, land based command can do, using satellite communications and coordination with aerial fleets.


Z-20 sized helicopter deck still does not discount the possibility that the vessel might be for export as many Navy's still use the Z-20 sized ASW helis like Thailand and Algeria.

The export idea still has a big problem because there are no reported orders from Algeria or Thailand since such orders are done with much publicity and fanfare. The Thai export 071, and the Pakistani Navy ships held very public celebrations when their keel is laid. Algeria is too poor for more ships besides their 056 type orders and Thailand, guess what, has a pro American government elected.

Such orders would also be accompanied by orders of missiles, which there is none. Such missile orders would be very public and splashed all over the Western defense media.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
The helicopter deck and hanger--- massively disproportionate in their consumption of space relative to the VLS --- suggests the vessel is also meant for ASW work, and the fact it's Z-20 sized to that blows the argument that it might be an export product to boot.
it became almost a given that a helicopter hangar/deck is ASW.
Helicopter(and all sorts of VTOLs really, rotor or not doesn't matter) purposes stretch well beyond just that...
 

test1979

Junior Member
Registered Member
Once again, you do not need a 055 or 052D for command and control for a whole bunch of heavy missile corvettes. Which by the way isn't a novel arsenal ship concept. This is the old Soviet missile warship concept through and through. This is exactly what the Tarantuls and Moliniyas do, although they are between the edge of a Corvette or a FAC. These craft can be loaded with as many as eight Sunburns or in a moderned form, 16 Kh-35 Urans.

The idea of missile ships protecting the coast assymetrically against a larger navy is an old one going back to the Soviets. It's only we replaced slant missile launchers to VLS. This idea is still with the Russians today and the PLAN can easily get exposed with these ideas through their exercises with the Russian Far East Fleet which has a number of these ships exactly in mind to do such tasks.

When you are fighting in the home coast, land based command can do, using satellite communications and coordination with aerial fleets.




The export idea still has a big problem because there are no reported orders from Algeria or Thailand since such orders are done with much publicity and fanfare. The Thai export 071, and the Pakistani Navy ships held very public celebrations when their keel is laid. Algeria is too poor for more ships besides their 056 type orders and Thailand, guess what, has a pro American government elected.

Such orders would also be accompanied by orders of missiles, which there is none. Such missile orders would be very public and splashed all over the Western defense media.
Algeria's defense budget will increase from US$9.3 billion in 2022 to US$22.7 billion in 2023, which means that some huge equipment purchases are underway. At the same time, there have been rumors that Algeria will order 6 light frigates similar to the 056.
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Wrought

Junior Member
Registered Member
A potential future light frigate for PLAN that would succeed 056 and complement 054A/B has been a recurring topic of discussion going back many years, as with my own thoughts from 2017 on desirable characteristics for a future FFL -- characteristics that appear almost entirely compatible with the vessel that now appears before us, I might add. Although we can draw few definite conclusions from the appearance of this vessel, not least of all because we do not know if it is merely a test ship (though I think the presence of HHQ-10 argues against this) or intended for an export client, it is entirely to be expected that it would both rejuvenate and inform that broader discussion. So long as folks clearly label their speculations as such, I don't see the harm. If no further material evidence emerges to further inform, narrow or recast the range of possibilities, the discussion will draw naturally to a close, just as it has in the past.

I will concede that properly contextualized speculation does not do any harm, per se, and also that a new vessel matching the available evidence is not unprecedented. That being said, I don't see how that means it's useful or necessary for people to engage in such speculation when there is little to no prospect of adding any value. The facts, such as they are, have been established and talking in circles beyond that point does not advance the discussion a whit. I would welcome anyone bringing new information to light, which does not appear to be happening thus far.

Now maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon, but given the choice of meaningless chatter or silence I much prefer the peace and quiet.
 

Staedler

Junior Member
Registered Member
Fan render from twitter user
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. Has the "chunky" look which seems more accurate than the one on page 1.

View attachment 121978
I know it's anti-radar, but it really has a look only a mother could love.


On the topic of speed, I think "high-speed" 40+ kn is pretty unlikely.
The C28A frigate, using 4 x 6 MW (24 MW total) diesels, achieves 30 kn. In a perfect speed-power cubic world, it would need somewhere in the ballpark of:
38 MW for 35 kn
57 MW for 40 kn
81 MW for 45 kn

In reality it might need a little more power than that as there are inefficiencies in drivetrain and hull form which are partially offset by the lower presumed displacement of 2600t. It is a displacement hull-form after all, one of the worst possible for chasing speeds above 30 kn.

That's 6-7 diesels for 35 kn, 9-10 for 40kn, and 13-14 for 45kn. All the while carrying a VLS instead of slant launchers and a larger hangar than the C28A and presumably lower displacement. Doesn't seem likely.

Given the 056A seems to achieve 25kn on ~8 MW on somewhere in the 1500t zone, I would venture to guess the new corvette's speed is more likely to be in the 28kn range than speeds much higher than that.
 
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tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think this ship is similar Russian Buyan-M, a small ship with large missile arsenal. Essentially it could be a successor of both the type 022 and 056. It will have strong ASW capability and also strong anti-surface missile capability. The UVLS will not be used for Air defense but for Anti-Ship or Anti-Surface Cruise missiles plus ASW rocket torpedo. The air defense duties will be done by the RIM style missile canister, similar to 056.
 
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