Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[Deleted member 13312]

-deleted-

 

[solarz]

You are also missing some points here, we aren't talking about endangered wildlife exclusively, but also wildlife that are not covered under them. Last I check, bats and snakes are not on the protected species list nor are they endangered, they are however not bred on farms so people aren't bothered with checking their conditions before selling them

It is precisely this factor that makes them vulnerable to contamination. Banning them is not going to change that, but regulating and setting procedures for their consumption will.

And you also missed the point on the ivory trade ban, ivory demand has lowered yes but it is not eliminated. It had merely migrated to the black market which is troubling because it is impossible to account for how many ivory are hunted from elephants and traded because smugglers and traders resort to all sorts of tricks to relabel the ivory as "legally procured" which defeats the whole purpose of the ban. Moreover. the ban was not a complete one as people can still trade and purchase ivory products. While this new ban threatens to be a complete one .

And most importantly, ivory does not infect and kill people while infected wildlife meat does.

Actually, many species of snakes are protected, and Chinese people do not eat bats.

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In addition, if an animal is in demand but is not farmed, then there is usually a very good reason for that. Not every animal is suitable or economically viable to be farmed.

Finally, it's easy to say the ivory trade has migrated to the black market and nobody knows the numbers. That just means you made an excuse for yourself not to back up your argument with any evidence.

The fact is, China has been very successful in eliminating certain behaviors through regulation.

Furthermore, nobody is arguing that you need to completely eliminate any wildlife poaching to prevent another viral outbreak. Isolated black markets do not operate on a massive enough scale to offer any significant chance of a virus jumping into human hosts. It takes a critical mass for that to happen, and unregulated wet markets provide the ideal conditions.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

They should because pangolin is suspected of the host for this virus and not bat People in north Sulawes(Menado) has been eating bat for eon and nobody get sick

Did pangolins spread the China coronavirus to people?
Genetic sequences of viruses isolated from the scaly animals are 99% similar to that of the circulating virus — but the work is yet to be formally published.
Researchers in Guangzhou, China, have suggested that pangolins — long-snouted, ant-eating mammals often used in traditional Chinese medicine — are the probable animal source of the coronavirus outbreak that has

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.

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Scientists say that the suggestion, based on a genetic analysis, seems plausible — but caution that the researchers’ work is yet to be published in full. “This is an extremely interesting observation. Although we need to see more details, it does make sense as there are now some other data emerging that pangolins carry viruses that are closely related to 2019-nCoV,” says Edward Holmes, an evolutionary virologist at the University of Sydney, Australia.

The identity of the animal source of the coronavirus, named nCoV-2019, has been one of the

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. Coronaviruses are known to circulate in mammals and birds, and scientists have already suggested that nCoV-2019 originally came from bats, a proposal based on the similarity of its genetic sequence to those of other known coronaviruses. But the virus was probably transmitted to humans by another animal. The coronavirus that caused severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS,

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.

You know that is even more ironic if it is true because Pangolins are a protected species. Which will prove that banning wildlife trade will never work so long as there is a demand for it.

 

[Jura The idiot]

What about the earlier accusation that Dr. Li spread rumors? Would he be posthumously exonerated?

"Luckily, Li was allowed to leave the police station after an hour." according to

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[solarz]

You know that is even more ironic if it is true because Pangolins are a protected species. Which will prove that banning wildlife trade will never work so long as there is a demand for it.

As I said above, the issue is not the wildlife, it's the wet markets that allows the viruses to jump into human hosts.

 

[vesicles]

You are also missing some points here, we aren't talking about endangered wildlife exclusively, but also wildlife that are not covered under them. Last I check, bats and snakes are not on the protected species list nor are they endangered, they are however not bred on farms so people aren't bothered with checking their conditions before selling them

It is precisely this factor that makes them vulnerable to contamination. Banning them is not going to change that, but regulating and setting procedures for their consumption will.

And you also missed the point on the ivory trade ban, ivory demand has lowered yes but it is not eliminated. It had merely migrated to the black market which is troubling because it is impossible to account for how many ivory are hunted from elephants and traded because smugglers and traders resort to all sorts of tricks to relabel the ivory as "legally procured" which defeats the whole purpose of the ban. Moreover. the ban was not a complete one as people can still trade and purchase ivory products. While this new ban threatens to be a complete one .

And most importantly, ivory does not infect and kill people while infected wildlife meat does.

We human need to consume animal meat to survive. We cannot ban the eating of every kind of meat. Handling the huge amount of "normal meat", like chicken, pork, beef and lamb, is already hard enough. We get bacterial contamination of some meat every once in a while, even in the US. Adding exotic wild animals to the equation makes proper handling even harder. The key point is that we do NOT need those wild animals. We have enough "normal meat" for consumption. In fact, in most countries, we eat too much of various kinds of meat, hence all the diseases like diabetes and cardiovascular disorders... We do NOT need more meat of wild animals.

Like I said a while back, the harms of eating wild animals massively outweigh the benefits of these exotic meats. Plus, most people in the world eat wild animals for the thrill of it or some mythical medicinal power, not to survive. Especially, in China, those who eat exotic wild animals typically pay big bucks. This is not an issue of survival, but luxury. Ban the eating of wild animals and tighten up the regulation for handling normal meats.

Will it solve everything? No! But any improvement will help.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Actually, many species of snakes are protected, and Chinese people do not eat bats.

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And there are still species of snakes that are NOT protected which is the point. And as for Chinese people not eating bats

I am not using this as a sarcastic joke and I know full well that the person depicted is a celebrity trying it out in Palau, but the point remains.
As well this

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"In South Asia, hunting bats for food occurs in Bangladesh by tribal groups, specifically targeting larger bat species. While bats are killed in India and Pakistan, consumption is rare, and perceived medicinal uses are more common motives. In East Asia, specifically southern China, bats are regularly eaten and can be found frequently in markets. International agencies pressured China to adopt legislation forbidding the hunting of bats and sale of bat meat following the early 2000s

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outbreak where hundreds of people died, though no such legislation was passed.

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All wildlife trade in China, including bat meat, was banned in January 2020 in response to the

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"

As I said above, the issue is not the wildlife, it's the wet markets that allows the viruses to jump into human hosts.

In addition, if an animal is in demand but is not farmed, then there is usually a very good reason for that. Not every animal is suitable or economically viable to be farmed.

Does not mean that people won't stop demanding for them

Finally, it's easy to say the ivory trade has migrated to the black market and nobody knows the numbers. That just means you made an excuse for yourself not to back up your argument with any evidence.

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TRAFFIC reports that all of the formerly accredited (i.e. legal) ivory shops the group’s investigators visited in 2018 have stopped selling ivory. But the illegal ivory trade has not been so thoroughly shut down. TRAFFIC investigators also visited 157 markets in 23 cities and found 2,812 ivory products on offer in 345 separate stores.
Sales of illegal ivory online also have yet to be eradicated, though they do appear to be in decline as well. According to the study, the average number of new ivory advertisements have decreased by nearly 27 percent on websites and close to 11 percent on social media platforms since the ban went into effect.

The fact is, China has been very successful in eliminating certain behaviors through regulation.

Eliminating or simply just pushing them into the shadows ?

Furthermore, nobody is arguing that you need to completely eliminate any wildlife poaching to prevent another viral outbreak. Isolated black markets do not operate on a massive enough scale to offer any significant chance of a virus jumping into human hosts. It takes a critical mass for that to happen, and unregulated wet markets provide the ideal conditions.

This is rather erroneous, we have no idea whether the new virus would be any more infectious than previous strains nor do we have any guarantee that people in the black market will stay there. A person who is infected from a hypothetical illegal consumption can just as easily spread the disease in Wuhan as it does for a legal one.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

As I said above, the issue is not the wildlife, it's the wet markets that allows the viruses to jump into human hosts.

So you agree that banning consumption of wildlife is not going to solve the problem then.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

We human need to consume animal meat to survive. We cannot ban the eating of every kind of meat. Handling the huge amount of "normal meat", like chicken, pork, beef and lamb, is already hard enough. We get bacterial contamination of some meat every once in a while, even in the US. Adding exotic wild animals to the equation makes proper handling even harder. The key point is that we do NOT need those wild animals. We have enough "normal meat" for consumption. In fact, in most countries, we eat too much of various kinds of meat, hence all the diseases like diabetes and cardiovascular disorders... We do NOT need more meat of wild animals.

Like I said a while back, the harms of eating wild animals massively outweigh the benefits of these exotic meats. Plus, most people in the world eat wild animals for the thrill of it or some mythical medicinal power, not to survive. Especially, in China, those who eat exotic wild animals typically pay big bucks. This is not an issue of survival, but luxury. Ban the eating of wild animals and tighten up the regulation for handling normal meats.

Will it solve everything? No! But any improvement will help.

It is never a question of needs and wants but rather that of demand and desire. These people don't want normal meat as you say but they want special meat, and if past indications are anything to go by a blanket ban is just going to sweep the thing under the rug.
You stated already that people who eat exotic animals pays big bucks, so why not charge them even more by putting regulations and procedures on handling the meat. Then they can have access to it while the authorities can keep an effective track on them on a sustainable basis, everyone wins. Ban them and people are just going to eat them in their backyard which is much worse.

PS : Also common medical diseases like cardiovascular and diabetes are not caused by the consumption of various meats but rather the consumption of excess amount of fat and sugars, there is a big difference here.

 

[KYli]

Well the Wuhan authorities have done a poor job in the month leading up to the outbreak. This is even supported by the official state narratives.

I agree that Western mainstream media is probably using this to bolster their narrative. However, shouldn’t we hold China to a higher standard? If the country could rapidly urbanize and lift millions out of extreme poverty, shouldn’t it have handled this crisis a lot better?

It is not just Wuhan but also the provincial government and CDC.

It depends if the so called higher standard is attainable. Hindsight is 2020. It is easy to criticize what they have done wrongs now but nobody at the beginning would have thought or dare to quarantine a major city like Wuhan. All the fuss about Dr Li but more warnings to the public would not stop the spread of the disease without drastic actions by the government. It might slow it down a bit but not enough to make much of a difference.

In the end of the day, we need protocols to deal with this kind of crisis. There should be protocols that automatically activated when a new and unknown disease pop up. It doesn't matter if the new disease is contagious or not. All hospitals should be warned and all medicals staffs should wear full protective gears. Patients should be isolated. People who have contacted with the disease should be quarantine. They should retract all suspicious cases and verify if anyone close relatives are also sickened and quarantine as much people as possible. Then CDC with the local government should update the public everyday with the latest development. If any suspicious human to human transmission occurs, the mayor or the local government should be given the authority to declare an emergency to shut down schools, public gatherings, and public transports. Mayor or the local government should not be held accountable even if it is a false alarm.