Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[lgnxz]

It isn't a mistake but rather Sinovac made a strategic decision that the Chinese market is far more important than any other markets

For the Chinese vaccine makers themselves, their biggest battleground is going to be the Chinese market, with 1.4 billion people. If any one of them cuts corners, they can kiss that market good bye. The other vaccine makers will only be all too happy to pick up their share. Furthermore, does anyone think non-Chinese countries will use a Chinese vaccine that isn't even approved in its own country? So the Chinese regulatory approval is the most important consideration for these vaccine makers.

I can't agree here.. There are already hundred-thousands of people using sinovac vaccine in china under EUA, none has any adverse effects, no way that they don't get final approval from the government, it would be a worse disaster by allowing the use of such a widespread vaccine that at the end is not approved. Do you really think the chance of sinovac being accepted by other countries are higher than the domestic approval? You're basically fighting for an imo guaranteed domestic market (as it should be expected to get a preferential treatment for a domestic product, as usual) at the cost of oversea countries where no such preference exists, thus the fight of the market are fiercer. Getting an approval from china also isn't as critical as the other countries either since the virus is pretty much nonexistent.

I also personally doubt that these companies can get a better profit by selling it here since I expect the government to force them to sell it marginally close to a breakeven, similar to military products in a sense, so selling 200 million domestically won't be as profitable nor as well-perceived as selling 200 million to multiple countries.

 

[Quickie]

I can't speak for the rest of South East Asia. The Chinese population there looks to be generally more pro-China. Except for The Philippines with their more complicated mestizo history. I can speak for Malaysia because I'm in the country itself.

Again I would say that it is a mixed-bag. FLG is here in Malaysia, but its so small, its nothing actually. The main problem right now is the current younger generation of Malaysian Chinese. Many have grown up in the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s. At that time, HK, Taiwanese, and Japanese pop-culture reign supreme. So HK, Taiwan, and Japan were worshipped, while China was looked down upon. Its very easy to be influenced into hating China. Plus many Chinese independent schools in Malaysia have close ties to the Taiwanese education system. So some of that Taiwan>China mentality have creeped into education. That's not saying all Malaysian Chinese educated in these schools are anti-China. The more pro-China older generation can still steer them away from excessive China hating with mixed results.

Even till now in Malaysia, HK and Taiwan are generally misunderstood as separate from China thanks to years of Western, Taiwan, and pro-HK propaganda. And off course, their separate passports from China. So that feeds into the HK-Taiwan camp mentality.

I have friends, perhaps too many friends in the Taiwan-HK camp because I'm in the city. They would dream of vacationing or migrating to HK or Taiwan. Celebrating all the greatness of these 2 places. But China? Hell no! That's a communist dystopia, full of CCP propaganda, censorship, and scammers. If you want to find more pro-China people, they are there and there are many of them. But they don't shout about it so much. Well I think because it is just because these people are not as political or as hateful as the anti-China people. Let's just say they are more pragmatic. So I can also understand why HK has this 'silent pro-China camp' thing.

But coming back to Covid-19, Sinovac is most likely going to be the first vaccine to be available in Malaysia. The clinical trials is more or less done. And China can deliver the vaccines now, not later, unlike the Western brands. I don't care which vaccine comes first, as long as it is safe and available. Even if Pfizer is available first and safe, I would still take it. The Covid-19 handling is a mess in Malaysia, and the vaccine is our best hope of getting out of it ASAP!

Then again, how many of the overseas ethnic Chinese are thinking of emigrating to HK or Taiwan? I would say very very few, especially the former.

Most of them would rather migrate to some western country where the standard of living, in the way of the surrounding environment and bigger living space, is better. Religion also plays a role in their psyche. A Christian majority country is probably a must in their decision-making for most of them practicing the religion.

 

[Gatekeeper]

But they don't shout about it so much. Well I think because it is just because these people are not as political or as hateful as the anti-China people. Let's just say they are more pragmatic. So I can also understand why HK has this 'silent pro-China camp' thing

Hatred is always a more powerful and louder force than love. This is where it manifest itself in public to push their hatred on to the world.

 

[Sardaukar20]

Then again, how many of the overseas ethnic Chinese are thinking of emigrating to HK or Taiwan? I would say very very few, especially the former.

Most of them would rather migrate to some western country where the standard of living, in the way of the surrounding environment and bigger living space, is better. Religion also plays a role in their psyche. A Christian majority country is probably a must in their decision-making for most of them practicing the religion.

True. Many of them would eventually migrate to Australia, UK, Canada, etc. Mainly because Taiwan and HK don't really accept immigrants. They are already crowded as it is.

 

[kaybee]

In Malaysia, most of the population can be considered moderately anti-China due to the ethnic Malay-majority historical hate for the Chinese race. To them, anything Chinese is considered 'communist' and anti-Islam (yeah that's what's being spread around to this day). Then there are the ethnic Indian population who don't need any encouragement to hate China. And lastly, the Malaysian Chinese population is a mixed bag, like the Hong Kong population. First there are those who are in the Taiwan-HK camp who range from dislike to vehemently hating China. People like popular hip-hop artist and influencer Namewee is one of them. Typically, these are the younger generation and city dwellers. Second there are the pro-China camp who range from 'ok with China', to taking China as the 'motherland'. These people, like the pro-China HKgers, don't shout as loud on social media. So they are relatively silent compared to the anti-China camp. Typically, these are from the older generation and countryside dwellers who have seen hardship and endured systemic racism from the Malaysian government.

For now, there is general skepticism in Malaysia for all things China. That includes the Sinovac vaccine. There are calls in social media to shun this vaccine in favour of Western brand vaccines like Pfizer, Astra, and Moderna. Many even say they would rather wait for these than take Sinovac. I think this is idiotic, because Covid-19 in Malaysia is no longer in control. A vaccine is need now, not later.

Nevertheless, luckily for Malaysia, most Malaysians are hypocrites. There was many so called boycott campaigns against 'Jew-owned businesses' like Mc Donalds, and against 'China-owned companies' like Proton. But they never worked. People still go to Mc Donald's in crowds, and people still drive the latest Proton cars. So, I'm fairly confident that Sinovac should do well in Malaysia.

But having said that, Malaysians have proven me wrong before. The previous progressive government was well liked at first, but after only 2-years, Malaysians generally turned on them for no good reason. When the current coup-government came into power. It was hated at first, but after some flip-flopping, now generally accepted. So, with Malaysia, don't bet on anything.

One of the winning soft power by Taiwan is their cheaper education. Malaysian Chinese can get very affordable education in Taiwan, you can work and study at the same time. Two of my wife's nephews are studying in Taiwan as their parent cannot afford. The same with a family friend's son. This is really winning the heart and mind of young Chinese in Malaysia once they studied there. My dad still follow Taiwan's politic and supportive of KMT. Historically strong tie as Dr Sun Yat-Sen even plan his revolution from a house in Penang. Still it is tough to be Chinese in Malaysia and some time being labelled as communist due to stigma of communist insurgency after ww2 thru the 80's.

 

[Quickie]

Self explanatory.

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This bit of information sounds interesting.

“Despite it being risky, we saw a very light picture where three people’s PCR (COVID test) were positive, with no fever or respiratory problems... We can easily say that despite it being risky, those three people went through it very lightly,” he said.


This is why it's vital to unify the standards of the different trials.

If the trial protocol were to test only participants who are symptomatic, the 3 vaccinated people who were positive (but who were asymptomatic) would not have gone through the PCR test, and the trial result would have come out 100% effective at that stage for the Sinovac vaccine.

This brings forth the question of whether the western vaccine trials test only subjects that come with symptoms or those who were asymptomatic as well.

If it's the former in the case of the western vaccine trials, then it's entirely unfair and inappropriate to compare the Sinovac vaccine trial results to those of the western vaccine trials.

 

[KYli]

I can't agree here.. There are already hundred-thousands of people using sinovac vaccine in china under EUA, none has any adverse effects, no way that they don't get final approval from the government, it would be a worse disaster by allowing the use of such a widespread vaccine that at the end is not approved. Do you really think the chance of sinovac being accepted by other countries are higher than the domestic approval? You're basically fighting for an imo guaranteed domestic market (as it should be expected to get a preferential treatment for a domestic product, as usual) at the cost of oversea countries where no such preference exists, thus the fight of the market are fiercer. Getting an approval from china also isn't as critical as the other countries either since the virus is pretty much nonexistent.

I also personally doubt that these companies can get a better profit by selling it here since I expect the government to force them to sell it marginally close to a breakeven, similar to military products in a sense, so selling 200 million domestically won't be as profitable nor as well-perceived as selling 200 million to multiple countries.

Getting approval or getting delay in approval are two different things. Chinese regulators would approve Sinovac vaccine but negative publicity could derail the approval for a few weeks or even a month or two. China plans to vaccinate 50 millions people soon which mean 100 millions doses are needed before the lunar new year. A few weeks delay in approval would mean hundreds millions of lost revenue.

Sinopharm full results have been accepted and should be approved soon. That means Sinovac doesn't have much time left if it wanted to take a big chunk of the 100m doses market. When domestic market is big and your domestic competitor is formidable, then it makes sense to prioritize the domestic market over foreign markets.

As for overseas market, Pfizer and Moderna supplies basically have been cornered by the Western countries for the first half of the 2021. And many countries don't want to overpay for the vaccines and deal with the logistic issues. So their purchases from Pfizer and Moderna would be limited. The only real competitor at the moment is Astra needed to sort out its issues. So Chinese vaccines are actually very attractive and competitive. For the next few months, it would be overseas countries that come asking for Chinese vaccines not the other way around. So a full consolidated results release in Jan is timely and shouldn't be an issue.

 

[daifo]

This bit of information sounds interesting.

“Despite it being risky, we saw a very light picture where three people’s PCR (COVID test) were positive, with no fever or respiratory problems... We can easily say that despite it being risky, those three people went through it very lightly,” he said.


This is why it's vital to unify the standards of the different trials.

If the trial protocol were to test only participants who are symptomatic, the 3 vaccinated people who were positive (but who were asymptomatic) would not have gone through the PCR test, and the trial result would have come out 100% effective at that stage for the Sinovac vaccine.

This brings forth the question of whether the western vaccine trials test only subjects that come with symptoms or those who were asymptomatic as well.

If it's the former in the case of the western vaccine trials, then it's entirely unfair and inappropriate to compare the Sinovac vaccine trial results to those of the western vaccine trials.

The 94% results being published are of symptomatic patients. Data for asymptomatic is unpublished / unknown yet. Hence US health official still recommends face mask / social distancing for people that have been vaccinated. Also, it was reported that some people that got the vaccine tend to feel tire/unwell the next few days, so i wonder if those same set of people would be less likely to report light covid symptoms since they are confident that they took the vaccine.

 

[nugroho]

In Malaysia, most of the population can be considered moderately anti-China due to the ethnic Malay-majority historical hate for the Chinese race. To them, anything Chinese is considered 'communist' and anti-Islam (yeah that's what's being spread around to this day). Then there are the ethnic Indian population who don't need any encouragement to hate China. And lastly, the Malaysian Chinese population is a mixed bag, like the Hong Kong population. First there are those who are in the Taiwan-HK camp who range from dislike to vehemently hating China. People like popular hip-hop artist and influencer Namewee is one of them. Typically, these are the younger generation and city dwellers. Second there are the pro-China camp who range from 'ok with China', to taking China as the 'motherland'. These people, like the pro-China HKgers, don't shout as loud on social media. So they are relatively silent compared to the anti-China camp. Typically, these are from the older generation and countryside dwellers who have seen hardship and endured systemic racism from the Malaysian government.

For now, there is general skepticism in Malaysia for all things China. That includes the Sinovac vaccine. There are calls in social media to shun this vaccine in favour of Western brand vaccines like Pfizer, Astra, and Moderna. Many even say they would rather wait for these than take Sinovac. I think this is idiotic, because Covid-19 in Malaysia is no longer in control. A vaccine is need now, not later.

Nevertheless, luckily for Malaysia, most Malaysians are hypocrites. There was many so called boycott campaigns against 'Jew-owned businesses' like Mc Donalds, and against 'China-owned companies' like Proton. But they never worked. People still go to Mc Donald's in crowds, and people still drive the latest Proton cars. So, I'm fairly confident that Sinovac should do well in Malaysia.

But having said that, Malaysians have proven me wrong before. The previous progressive government was well liked at first, but after only 2-years, Malaysians generally turned on them for no good reason. When the current coup-government came into power. It was hated at first, but after some flip-flopping, now generally accepted. So, with Malaysia, don't bet on anything.

I can't speak for the rest of South East Asia. The Chinese population there looks to be generally more pro-China. Except for The Philippines with their more complicated mestizo history. I can speak for Malaysia because I'm in the country itself.

Again I would say that it is a mixed-bag. FLG is here in Malaysia, but its so small, its nothing actually. The main problem right now is the current younger generation of Malaysian Chinese. Many have grown up in the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s. At that time, HK, Taiwanese, and Japanese pop-culture reign supreme. So HK, Taiwan, and Japan were worshipped, while China was looked down upon. Its very easy to be influenced into hating China. Plus many Chinese independent schools in Malaysia have close ties to the Taiwanese education system. So some of that Taiwan>China mentality have creeped into education. That's not saying all Malaysian Chinese educated in these schools are anti-China. The more pro-China older generation can still steer them away from excessive China hating with mixed results.

Even till now in Malaysia, HK and Taiwan are generally misunderstood as separate from China thanks to years of Western, Taiwan, and pro-HK propaganda. And off course, their separate passports from China. So that feeds into the HK-Taiwan camp mentality.

I have friends, perhaps too many friends in the Taiwan-HK camp because I'm in the city. They would dream of vacationing or migrating to HK or Taiwan. Celebrating all the greatness of these 2 places. But China? Hell no! That's a communist dystopia, full of CCP propaganda, censorship, and scammers. If you want to find more pro-China people, they are there and there are many of them. But they don't shout about it so much. Well I think because it is just because these people are not as political or as hateful as the anti-China people. Let's just say they are more pragmatic. So I can also understand why HK has this 'silent pro-China camp' thing.

But coming back to Covid-19, Sinovac is most likely going to be the first vaccine to be available in Malaysia. The clinical trials is more or less done. And China can deliver the vaccines now, not later, unlike the Western brands. I don't care which vaccine comes first, as long as it is safe and available. Even if Pfizer is available first and safe, I would still take it. The Covid-19 handling is a mess in Malaysia, and the vaccine is our best hope of getting out of it ASAP!

almost same in Indonesia, the difference is Chinese only 2-3%. FLG almost none, but the Radical Islamic movement is anti -China .

 

[localizer]

They blamed Chiense PPE, but turns out it was US made.