Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just to add, that of all countries, China has been far and away the most thorough and relentless in dealing with the outbreak.

It is still the only country where a major, full scale outbreak was entirely contained and eradicated, while the best the west can manage is to flatten the curve and reduce the speed of the spread; while ‘golden standard’ examples lionised in the west either managed to prevent a major outbreak through boarder controls, or only had minor outbreaks.

If wet markets were truly the source, you can rest assured that China would not hesitate to close them. It has most certainly not shied away from facing hard truths and making difficult calls, which is how they managed to bring the outbreak under control and fully eradicate it domestically.

With the actual results clear for all to see, I will take China’s evidence and scientific based assessments over the west’s moralistic and racists theorybashing any day of the week.

What evidence is there to show that the animals sold in that market were 100% farmed? How would anyone be able to trace that? Would it not be reasonable to assume that there is a possiblility that some of the animals were wild and some were farmed. And all you need is one animal infected from the wild to introduce that virus.

Like you said, the virus had to have traveled to Wuhan somehow.

Also, its not just wild animals. It's also the fact they are alive. This is another a massive reason why these types of places are so at risk for viruses. SARS was transmitted thru live poultry, because the virus survived in the live chicken when it was brought to the market live, and then exposed hundreds of people in that market.

If the chicken was processed at a factory and frozen and then sold in a store. The chances of a super spreader event is much less likely.

Granted, will shutting down these markets prevent ALL outbreaks in the future. No, but will they reduce the likelihood. Yes.

Its much easier to contain an outbreak in a far away corner. But it's the act of transporting live poultry into a city like Wuhan that can lead to a super spreader event. There should be a ban on live animals being sent to major cities like Wuhan.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
What evidence is there to show that the animals sold in that market were 100% farmed? How would anyone be able to trace that? Would it not be reasonable to assume that there is a possiblility that some of the animals were wild and some were farmed. And all you need is one animal infected from the wild to introduce that virus.

Like you said, the virus had to have traveled to Wuhan somehow.

Also, its not just wild animals. It's also the fact they are alive. This is another a massive reason why these types of places are so at risk for viruses. SARS was transmitted thru live poultry, because the virus survived in the live chicken when it was brought to the market live, and then exposed hundreds of people in that market.

If the chicken was processed at a factory and frozen and then sold in a store. The chances of a super spreader event is much less likely.

Granted, will shutting down these markets prevent ALL outbreaks in the future. No, but will they reduce the likelihood. Yes.

Its much easier to contain an outbreak in a far away corner. But it's the act of transporting live poultry into a city like Wuhan that can lead to a super spreader event. There should be a ban on live animals being sent to major cities like Wuhan.

Considering that we've seen an outbreak in Beijing due to contaminated frozen salmon, your argument that frozen meat is safer is not based on any scientific evidence.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Considering that we've seen an outbreak in Beijing due to contaminated frozen salmon, your argument that frozen meat is safer is not based on any scientific evidence.

Yes, the coronavirus loves cold. At - 20 oC, the coronavirus can survive for up to 2 years. At 4 oC, it can survive for 2 weeks. At 100 oC, about a couple minutes.

with that being said, regulating meat processing will certainly help in prevention of future epidemics. This is because a well-regulated meat processing facility can be cleaned thoroughly on a daily basis. In such a facility, virtually every single part of all the equipment can be taken apart and cleaned thoroughly with soap, bleach and water. The entire facility, from ceiling to the floor, can be washed with soap and bleach every day. This is so much better than those live markets.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
Yes, the coronavirus loves cold. At - 20 oC, the coronavirus can survive for up to 2 years. At 4 oC, it can survive for 2 weeks. At 100 oC, about a couple minutes.

with that being said, regulating meat processing will certainly help in prevention of future epidemics. This is because a well-regulated meat processing facility can be cleaned thoroughly on a daily basis. In such a facility, virtually every single part of all the equipment can be taken apart and cleaned thoroughly with soap, bleach and water. The entire facility, from ceiling to the floor, can be washed with soap and bleach every day. This is so much better than those live markets.

While hygiene is certainly important regardless of the pandemic, it's important that we do not draw the wrong conclusions on the cause of COVID-19.

I believe the Huanan Seafood Market re-opened with much better hygienic conditions, so its certainly possible to improve practices in that area.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
What evidence is there to show that the animals sold in that market were 100% farmed? How would anyone be able to trace that? Would it not be reasonable to assume that there is a possiblility that some of the animals were wild and some were farmed. And all you need is one animal infected from the wild to introduce that virus.

You can apply the exact same logic to all sorts of animal products. Can you be 100% that all ducks are farmed and that no hunted wild ducks ever ended up on supermarket shelves?

Besides, while the west turns their noses up at wet markets, they would not think twice about buying rabbits, pheasants and venison at the supermarket or farmers market. Guess what? None of that is farmed.

Like you said, the virus had to have traveled to Wuhan somehow.

Given the available evidence now, it’s looks like a human carrier is the most likely source of the outbreak at the market.

Also, its not just wild animals. It's also the fact they are alive. This is another a massive reason why these types of places are so at risk for viruses. SARS was transmitted thru live poultry, because the virus survived in the live chicken when it was brought to the market live, and then exposed hundreds of people in that market.

The undue focus on life animals being sold is partly the same old western media spin of magnifying differences to suggest causality, but also because Covid didn’t jump directly to humans and that there is an as yet unidentified additional intermediary animal host between bats and people.

But the fact that this mystery host is still unidentified would strongly suggest it isn’t an animal sold at the wet market since that is the most obvious starting point and all of them would have been thoroughly investigated to the point that if one of them was the true source, it would have been identified long before now.

Given that Covid can infect cats, what happens if it is later determined that it was a domestic cat that is the true cause? It killed and eat a wild bat to contracted the virus, passed it onto the owner and started the whole thing. Would you be so quick and keen to advocate the elimination of keeping pets to reduce risks of future pandemics? Domestic cats kills hundreds of millions of wild animals every each and then lick your hands and faces after they licked their butts. From a pure numbers game scenario, they are far far more dangerous than the few thousand wet markets people buy food from that they then cook before eating.

It’s easy to look down your nose at different practices of other cultures and lightly suggest they should stop, but how often do we apply the same standards to what our cultures find perfectly normal?

If the chicken was processed at a factory and frozen and then sold in a store. The chances of a super spreader event is much less likely.

Cough, swine flu, cough.

Its much easier to contain an outbreak in a far away corner. But it's the act of transporting live poultry into a city like Wuhan that can lead to a super spreader event. There should be a ban on live animals being sent to major cities like Wuhan.

Given the long incubation period of Covid, and the fact that people can be contagious without showing symptoms, it is still the most likely scenario that it was a human host who carried the virus to the wet market where it spread to many others. It could just as easily have been a shopping centre or sporting event or any other mass gathering of people. But the western MSM doesn’t care about that because they are chiefly concerned with trying to pin the blame on China when the latest evidence suggest the virus didn’t even originate in China and was merely first detected by the Chinese.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Considering that we've seen an outbreak in Beijing due to contaminated frozen salmon, your argument that frozen meat is safer is not based on any scientific evidence.

Processing and freezing takes care of many pathogens but not all. So it's still a valid argument. Furthermore it's not just freezing but introducing this level of processing allows for easier checking by management and authorities. It's also easier to keep the entire distribution chain cleaner and more manageable without live animals shitting and spreading everything they're carrying to various other animals and humans along with surfaces everywhere from the trucks to door handles and clothing. I know China is like any other country and has all of this but the more live stuff needs a model overhaul. Seafood is easier to keep safe for disease spread. Maybe restrict live foods to seafood only or have much stricter measures in place for live poultry and mammals lol.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Processing and freezing takes care of many pathogens but not all. So it's still a valid argument. Furthermore it's not just freezing but introducing this level of processing allows for easier checking by management and authorities. It's also easier to keep the entire distribution chain cleaner and more manageable without live animals shitting and spreading everything they're carrying to various other animals and humans along with surfaces everywhere from the trucks to door handles and clothing. I know China is like any other country and has all of this but the more live stuff needs a model overhaul. Seafood is easier to keep safe for disease spread. Maybe restrict live foods to seafood only or have much stricter measures in place for live poultry and mammals lol.

Again, the evidence is not there to justify this kind of effort. Like @plawolf said, China has spared no expense to contain the virus. If there was real scientific evidence that wet markets were the cause of this outbreak, why did China allow the Huanan Seafood Market to re-open?

Sure, we can argue in a vacuum that a pristine supermarket is better than a dirty wet market. However, supermarkets requires a lot of investment, which means local farmers will lose the ability to sell to consumers directly, which has tangible consequences for their well-being. If you want to destroy the livelihood of these people, then you'd better have some pretty solid evidence to justify your action!
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
While hygiene is certainly important regardless of the pandemic, it's important that we do not draw the wrong conclusions on the cause of COVID-19.

I believe the Huanan Seafood Market re-opened with much better hygienic conditions, so its certainly possible to improve practices in that area.

The last time I saw it in YouTube, thanks to some China vloggers, it was still closed.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
I must be very humiliating experience White house the gleaming castle on the hill is now Covid hot spot. All of the joint chief are now infected except 1

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Meanwhile..... every major Chinese cities Wuhan, Nanjing, Changsha, Shenyang. Shenzhen celebrating victory over the virus. Changsha is Chairman Mao hometown and his big bust is there are they saying something here
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Don't forget that China quickly banned consumption of exotic animals, banned farming of wild animals (anything that is not kind of beef, chicken, pork etc.) EVEN though there is no 100% proof that farming wild animals are the root cause of corona virus jumped into Human this time.

Is it mainly because Chinese government is afraid of foreign blackmailing? Or it is a "better not to" precaution measure against high risk eating practice EVEN IF it is eventually proven that consuming wild animals are "innocent"? I believe the latter being the motivation.

On the one hand we should not blindly follow the western narrative that COVID-19 started in Wuhan. But on the other hand, certain eating habit in certain part of China is VERY risky (also uncivilized). If it is not 2013, it could be 2019, if it is not 2019, it could be 2020, risk is not certain to happen at a specific time, but is certain to happen some time.

The argument is similar to "for or against wearing face mask", even WHO stated "no evidence to mandate wearing mask" in the early days. We (Chinese) were laughing at the westerners demanding test results to prove "mask is efficient". Now shall we argue about proof of "eating wild animal carries high risk of getting virus"? The risk is there although not 100%, just like the mask is protective although not 100%.
 
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