Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
talking about test well well what do you know via Daniel 808 I guess you are here too
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Chinese Covid-19 test kit outstrips alternatives in Dutch study
  • Product made by Shenzen-based biotech company BGI Group gets top marks in sensitivity test for gene that affects how the novel coronavirus replicates
  • Increased sensitivity helps to detect infection in people with only mild or no symptoms, head of research team says
Published: 6:00pm, 20 May, 2020

A Chinese
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test kit outperformed equivalent products made in
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, Germany, Spain and
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, according to a study by scientists in the Netherlands.

In laboratory tests, the commercially available reverse transcriptase-polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) kit made by Shenzen-based biotech company BGI Group achieved the lowest limit of detection (LOD) score, suggesting it was more sensitive to the presence of the coronavirus than comparable products.

In scientific testing, an LOD is the lowest quantity of a substance that can be distinguished from a total absence of that substance with almost 100 per cent accuracy. In this case, the researchers were looking at test kits that identify the ORF1ab gene, which affects how the coronavirus replicates and how virulent it is.

The research was carried out by a team from the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, an independent agency under the Dutch health ministry, led by virologist Dr Adam Meijer.

The results were published last month on bioRxiv, a preprint website for scientific studies that have not been peer-reviewed.

The test kit outperformed similar products made in South Korea, Germany, Spain and Britain. Photo: AP

In the test, the Chinese kit returned an LOD of 4.3 copies (of the gene) per millilitre, followed by the South Korean product with 4.8. The German and Spanish kits both scored 18, while the British kit fared worst of all with 23.



When asked about the significance of the results, Meijer told the South China Morning Post that all of the products were of a suitable quality for mass testing for Covid-19, but the ones with a greater degree of sensitivity would be preferable in certain situations.

“When you expect low viral loads because of the nature of the patients being tested – such as health care workers with mild or no symptoms, or patients during later stages of the infection – it is best to choose a test that has the highest sensitivity,” he said.

However, while products’ sensitivity could be measured in a laboratory, the actual performance of a test kit was affected by many other factors, such as the quality of swab samples, Meijer said.

For instance, while some Chinese nasal and oral swab tests had returned accuracy levels as low as 30 per cent in earlier studies, that was likely a result of the samples not being taken properly. In more typical tests, with larger numbers of patients, the accuracy rate rose to 96 per cent, he said.

Even the in-house test kit developed by the Dutch institute – which had a sensitivity higher than any of the commercial products – was not 100 per cent accurate and returned false negatives for some samples with very low or damaged viral loads. Ensuring samples were properly taken and stored was more important, Meijer said.

Although China is a major supplier of personal protective equipment and testing kits, it has faced criticism in some countries over the quality of its products.

In April, the Indian government cancelled an order for Chinese test kits after accusing them of being defective, while a Czech hygienist said in March that up to 80 per cent of Chinese rapid coronavirus test kits she had looked at were faulty.

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, saying some countries, like India, were not storing or transporting the kits properly, which affected their efficacy.
Meijer said his study did not include any test kits made in the United States as they either did not meet European quality standards or were not available at the time.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I think it shows how easily the US controls the narrative. The US was upset that China was sending aid to other countries and now they have the story that China was withholding medical supplies from everyone from the beginning. All the countries complaining also have had anti-China agendas before COVID-19. And they've shown to have not taken the coronavirus seriously from the start.
 

0Fox0

New Member
Registered Member
Part 1


It spends the money to influence Chinese people both in China and overseas. Nothing illogical about that.
Don't play games. You said they were trying to keep a low profile. I said they pour billions into soft power. The two actions are contradictory. They fund soft power moves to increase soft power not to keep a low profile.

To be frank, the US destroys its own credibility just fine and its media is absolutely vicious about calling out the mistakes of their own government.

This is one of the finer points of soft power escapes many people. When (some of) America's crimes/mistakes are revealed, it's combined with highly deceptive interpretations/explanations. Wmd in Iraq was called "flawed intel". CIA black prisons were justified with "to keep democracy safe" or "stop terrorists". They even use shows like 24 to legitimize these crimes (eg we "had" to torture this guy to save the world). A My Lai Massacre in Vietnam is portrayed as the result of "bad apples". Genocidal invasions and illegal wars are propped up with "noble intentions".
Why does this matter?
This is industrial strength gas lightning. Sure, you see the crimes, but the pattern of intentional criminality is hidden. America has overthrown many democracies in pursuit of profit and power. That should be the take away message instead of "stopping an authoritarian regime" or some such nonsense.
May Lai for example was not a one off, but a top down scorched earth policy that happened every day (Kill Anything That Moves Kill Anything That Moves (American Empire Project): Turse, Nick: 9781250045065: Amazon.com: Books). American soldiers were taught the “mere gook rule”. How is that an “isolated incident”? The people being brainwashed by the numerous Vietnam War propaganda films don't get that message do they?

Everything you said is out there and people can read about it if they like, but it gets drowned out by their mainstream media.

Correct. How much of these crimes make it to the front page for decades like the so-called Tibetan genocide? It's not enough to talk about something. It needs to be repeated all the time for it to stick. These sorry-not-sorry admissions of guilt are shown once or twice and quickly forgotten.
That’s what non-Western media should be doing. They should be the ones bringing this stuff up whenever it’s even tangentially relevant. Look at Western media. Topics about AI will have quips about Chinese “authoritarianism”. Topics about #metoo will have quips about (already disproven) Chinese female infancide. Topics about Chinese tech will have quips about baseless claims of ip theft.

Does Chinese media or any non-Western media employ these tactics so that negative views rise to the level of common sense?



I don't think it's even necessary to add another voice into the mix and if you do, it shouldn't be a Chinese one for everyone to take the story from "The US is incompetent" to "China's trying to brainwash you!"
Agreed but this is already obvious.

We're not talking about telling people something they otherwise couldn't find out in order to educated them; we're talking about booming your outlet louder than their national outlets, otherwise, there's still no novelty to what you're trying to add.
Find out is the key phrase. People know what they are fed. Very few are going out of their way to find stuff.
Regarding your second point, don’t fight where your enemy is strong. Search for “The Soviet Union exposed” for an example.

Their own medias point out anti-China racism and they don't even listen; what makes you think they will listen to it coming from a Chinese outlet?
Search back up for “This is one of the finer points of soft power”
Use different tactics for different audiences.

At home, exposing Sinophobia would be mostly useful for Chinese audiences to increase their vigilance. Abroad, punishing Sinophobia would be more useful eg Anti Defamation League style.

Chinese media points out these illogical hypocrisies to the Chinese audience, but you've no way of getting heard over local mainstream media.

You don't need everyone to hear your message. The goal is effectiveness. Racism can be used against the racists. China will not change the West’s acist attitudes, but China can make them think twice by humiliating them and punishing them.
For example, the West cunningly uses ANY example of racism by a Chinese to destroy China's image. Why isn't the same done against the West when they behave badly against them? Western anti Asian racism could be easily broadcasted to other Asian nations to sour opinion on the West.
Something like this was done to great effect during the Cold War. The Soviet Union exposed the rampant lynching of Black people by white men. It humiliated America and caused them to (superficially) change. The Soviet Union did not have control over America's national media. How did they do this? They told the story around the world. The West does not have control over all media.

HK is a mistake long in the making. ....It's a whole different beast than global outreach.
I disagree. It's not different at all at the fundamental level. The problem is widespread ignorance combined with Western media brainwashing. There's no widespread acknowledgement of the West's anti Asian racism. There is white worship in Asian media, advertising, shopping, video games, dating shows, etc. There is a Western media assault where whites are portrayed as wonderful with their so-called Western values, cherry picked aesthetics, etc.
China essentially, from what I can tell, does not attack America or the West in general. In fact, they behave like a PR arm of the West, constantly singing them praises…for free. I can’t think of a more stupid approach to PR than China’s.
The result is totally predictable. There is no mystery at all.
The global outreach is similarly weak. Let's use the BRI “debt trap” topic. Chinese media invites men with thick accented lisps to bore people to death about the BRI and why it’s a win win cooperation. This is defensive and weak. Why don't they expose the rank hypocrisy of Western criticism? Here's an entire book about Western debt traps (Confession of an Economic Hitman Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: Perkins, John: 8580001045009: Amazon.com: Books). Immediately, the compare and contrast would be striking and make the West look like a thief and China would look like a saint.
Now, before you brag about lots of nations signing up to BRI. That is true, but there are those who are also on the fence and accusing China of "debt trapping" them because they bought into the lies. I can't tell how much of that are CIA sockpuppets doing psyops or genuine fear from locals.

Mostly from entertainment and actually going there for study or work exchange, etc...
I doubt this a lot. Entertainment yes. Working there? No. There are surveys showing Chinese expats become more patriotic as a result of going to the West for a while. The answer is obvious. The West is great at false advertising. China, for whatever reason, refuses to expose this false advertising, and often, stupidly reinforces it at their expense. Chinese people get burnt.

but hate clouds knowledge and judgement. The Chinese are more readily willing and able to learn about America when they're not constantly blasted with how evil the country is.
You are holding a binary view on your options. It's not America perfect vs America is Satan. There are lots of levels of awareness in between.
I'm simply saying that the view Chinese have of America is way too far in the "America perfect" part of the spectrum. It needs to be pulled back drastically.


Foreign-worship in China never comes from the belief that those people are friendly towards China; it comes from admiration for their technology and romanticism about their culture/society through entertainment and media.
Are you sure? Why would white people receive top treatment in China then? Why are they invited to business meetings, expensive weddings, (uglies) given modeling jobs, introduced to single women (while millions of Chinese men are dying alone), etc? What does that have to do with their technology or society? I mean, if Chinese people know whites people are NOT friendly to them and still do this, there’s a much bigger problem.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 

0Fox0

New Member
Registered Member
Part 2

Are you talking about Chinese media control inside China or globally? I thought we were addressing the later issue because it's quite clear that the Chinese people in the mainland are quite well united by Chinese media.
Both. The common theme is they are too nice towards hostiles and it's not for a lack of ammunition. All I see from this softness is Chinese people getting burnt all the time. What I don’t see are advantages. You have yet to show me any advantage that is a result of this particular media strategy (eg gaining Western know how is NOT a result of China's white-worship media. It's from paying school fees and going to clasS). While I have shown you a bunch already.

Yes, the domestic audience is unified. Though, it's hard to know how much of that is due to media vs superior governance and growth.

Spreading awareness is easier said than done; Western outlets themselves describe these racist attacks and don't seem to have much of an effect on their citizens.
Whose citizens? If you are referring to Western citizens then that is simple to explain. The racism is deep and systemic. No amount of awareness will change Western hate towards non-whites. Just recently a white father and son in a pickup truck lynched a Black man on a lone jog. The local judge covered it up for months. Thousands went to social media to defend the Caucasians. This is in 2020.
Yet, these same type of people jumped on Africans being evicted in Guanzhou (even though the Africans were violating covid 19 quarantine and spread infections all over).
These types of white people, and there are lots of them, used motivated reasoning and are die hard racists.

It's important for those combating western racism to understand these events are not "bad apples" the way Western media portrays it. An enormous segment of the white population are willing and active participants. They lie, whitewash their own crimes, gaslight, concern troll, virtue signal, deflect blame, blame the victim, engage in moral evasion (eg whataboutism), etc.
The focus should be on China immunizing its population so they don't end up as a victim of white worship.

This is the funny one. Easier said than done. The US can do it because after WWII, it basically controlled Europe and is ideologically aligned with them.
USA flipped European states using false flag terrorist attacks that were blamed on communists. This was called Operation Gladio.

China doesn't have that luxury and its communist tag rings alarm bells everywhere. With that cowbell around its neck threading lightly is a must.
I addressed this already. Do not use state media to spread your views. Use private channels.

They would and they do. The EU was just as alarmed about China as the US was... before Trump screwed up the alliance. If these countries saw red China spreading a message in their countries, they would react. That resistance could be getting softer and softer, though, in the Trump era.

You seem to have a certain message in your mind that is probably different from the ones in mine. I am not suggesting that China blast "win win cooperation shared future for mankind" with Xi's mug in front of a hammer and sickle. I'm merely suggesting that publications on a variety of topics could be used to show a mix of stories both good and bad about China and the the west. That is to gain trust. When something like the "debt trap" or "Uyghur genocide" shows up, these outlets would push FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) about the claims instead of what we have now - a giant Western echo chamber that repeats CIA talking points. The different between this plan and alternative media is acceptance. Alternative eg anti imperialist media can come on too strong and people can't take it all at once and they may dismiss it as being all biased eg this is anti-American, you’re a communist shill.

Very expensive, difficult move by you to create and set up media outlet, very easy and cheap for your opponents to ban it when they do find out. With investigative journalism today, your ownership and allegiance will be discovered with your first pro-China article... if it even takes that long.
China is pouring billions into state media that the world reflexively ignores as a "communist mouthpiece". They should try something different since they’re just burning billions for apparently nothing.
A CIA director once quipped, you can buy a decent journalist for the price of an escort every month. Truthdig.com was one of the leading anti imperialist publications. It even employed Chris Hedges, a highly rated ex-NYT journalist who spoke out against the illegal 2003 American Invasion of Iraq. Their annual budget was 1,000,000 usd. Keep in mind the costs are vastly cheaper outside of developed nations.

On your second point, that's correct. So, why isn't China trashing Western imperialist cutouts? Look at the CIA's National Endowment for Democracy (NED) in HK. Why was it allowed to maintain an image of being an selfless ngo when it's the CIA government toppling arm?
That’s another giant soft power failure. Why is China so nice? I don’t want to hear cope about this being a 4d chess move. The city imploded. And I doubt it was their goal since they recently complicated the Zhuhai-Macao-HK seabridge. I doubt they wanted to build a seabridge to a failed city.
not too familiar with this realm since I don't use these platforms but generally, online discussions attract like-minded people. Pro-China people go to ones that laud China and anti-China people go to CIA-funded ones because they are most comfortable there. China certainly has these forums that foreigners can join but their popularity is unknown to me and popularity is key.
China has platforms in Chinese without internationalization so of course no one else knows about it.
Popularity is important but it's also a function of audience size, which can be artificially created. That's what reddit’s team did with less than 5 people or something. Those 5 people sat around and posted threads on the reddit platform until it became popular enough to attract real users and grow organically on its own. Reddit/r/worldnews on its face should be a neutral place for news yet it’s filled with pro-Western bs and the audience just buries opposing view points by attacking and downvoting them until they are hidden. I don’t see why the West should have a monopoly on these types of influential platforms.

Anyway, as you were complaining about the incompetence of the CCP, they were busy delivering the results you wanted to see
China cannot take credit for America's own goals. Secondly, China's increasing power is hard power, largely financial, as the world struggles with the covid-19 induced economic crisis.
If you were being serious, you would show me the laws being passed to prevent China from acquiring assets at depressed prices.


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BTW, I don’t know if we should continue this debate here. If you are interested, then we should move it to a different thread. This was supposed to be about the coronavirus.
 
The Covid-19 IGG antibody test is a laboratory test. This is not a clinical diagnosis where a doctor determine what kind of disease the patient had by making detail physical observation, and assessing it based on his own opinion. The IGG antibody test is based on the existence of IGG antibody. If the antibody tested is present/positive, it means the patient had been infected by Covid-19 sometimes in the distant past. And Mayor Melham was tested positive for IGG antibody,

I presume you are referring to Bruce Edwards Ivins, the researcher at Fort Detrick who was charged by the FBI for the alleged 2001 anthrax attacks. After he learned he was to be arraign and brought to trial, he committed suicide. If he was really innocent of the charge, why would he killed himself?

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Read the caption underneath the photo in the following link. The coronavirus was most likely obtained from China via $ 3.7 million U.S. government grant given to China to collect and study bats collected in Yunnan province (it's not in central China, it's in southwest China).

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Begs the question on why the US is going out its way to avoid being investigated as possible source of the virus? They have even threaten to withdraw from the WHO. Also did not sign into allowing WHO to investigate the origin of the virus in any country.
 
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0Fox0

New Member
Registered Member
Begs the question on why the US is going out of their way to avoid being investigated as possible source of the virus? They have even threaten to withdraw from the WHO.

It's very obvious and I don't want to get banned for bringing up "conspiracy theories" like the American biological warfare against North Korea and China during the America North Korea War. For around 50 years the American media swore up and down that is was crazy, slanderous, a malicious lie, America would never do that, Western values, Christian values, human rights, etc. The documents came out and it was true. America waged biological warfare against North Korean and Chinese citizens.

The facts are Fort Detrick, an infamous American biological weapons lab, had major leaks in 2019. Almost immediately a bunch of mysterious pneumonia that had the same symptoms as covid-19 appear. This is from a country that admitted to conducting secret human biological weapons tests on its own citizens at least 293 times. America has 13 BSL4 labs in America and many others overseas in foreign nations with low oversight.

The Western media is coordinated in a global campaign to ignore all that. Instead, they direct your attention to China because they have one BSL4 lab that studies infectious diseases to fight epidemics and China has ZERO modern history (since the 1900's and probably much earlier) of using biological weapons against anyone in offensive capacity.. Mike "we lie, we cheat, we stole" Pompeo has "enormous evidence."

ib3v4Nb.jpg


He's the new Colin Powell of wmd in Iraq fame

47P228j.jpg
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
@0Fox0 I can't continue this mega conversation here regarding how racist and hateful X people are as per Deino's warning. Gonna get banned. I'll reply you by PM.

Update: I can't start a conversation with you for some reason; you'll have to start one with me.
 

0Fox0

New Member
Registered Member
I don't have permissions to do that either. You can reply and just ignore the racism related material if you still want to debate. Though, we better move off this thread soon if we still can't have a meeting of minds. I think we're overstaying our welcome.
 
It's very obvious and I don't want to get banned for bringing up "conspiracy theories" like the American biological warfare against North Korea and China during the America North Korea War. For around 50 years the American media swore up and down that is was crazy, slanderous, a malicious lie, America would never do that, Western values, Christian values, human rights, etc. The documents came out and it was true. America waged biological warfare against North Korean and Chinese citizens.

The facts are Fort Detrick, an infamous American biological weapons lab, had major leaks in 2019. Almost immediately a bunch of mysterious pneumonia that had the same symptoms as covid-19 appear. This is from a country that admitted to conducting secret human biological weapons tests on its own citizens at least 293 times. America has 13 BSL4 labs in America and many others overseas in foreign nations with low oversight.

The Western media is coordinated in a global campaign to ignore all that. Instead, they direct your attention to China because they have one BSL4 lab that studies infectious diseases to fight epidemics and China has ZERO modern history (since the 1900's and probably much earlier) of using biological weapons against anyone in offensive capacity.. Mike "we lie, we cheat, we stole" Pompeo has "enormous evidence."

ib3v4Nb.jpg


He's the new Colin Powell of wmd in Iraq fame

47P228j.jpg

LOL.
Right.
Pompeo is not a credible source.
Why not just fairly and scientifically investigate all leads instead of endlessly perpetuating MSM's non-existent "enormous evidence COVID-19 came from Wuhan lab".
Why and What is US hiding since they are unwilling to reciprocate?
 

adiru

Junior Member
Registered Member
Does anyone still recall back in 2018 when trade talks first broken down Pompeo commented to the Chinese side that there would be a plague in your houses ( which at the time was intrepreted as a religious reference only)
 
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