Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[manqiangrexue]

I was thinking about an interesting conversation I had with my Chinese friend when COVID-19 had just started up in Wuhan and there were only 300 casualties in China at the time. He is a PhD and professor of virology in the states and I asked him whether he thought it would overtake SARS and kill over 1,000 people in China. He said, maybe not but uncertain. Then I said the flu kills tens of thousands of people in the US every year; this can't be that serious, can it? And he replied something that I did not follow up on. I thought he was just being a little racist and funny but now that I think of it, what he said sounds remarkably correct when comparing to data today. He said, "Yeah, but Caucasians tend to be much more vulnerable when infected by viruses that kill primarily by attacking the respiratory system." Well, he said it less eloquently; he said, "I don't know why white people die so easily from flus and stuff. Flu hardly touched them and they die."

I thought he was joking so I didn't ask him for further information but looking at the data, he sounded right! All Asian countries are dealing with COVID-19 very well. Wuhan was the epicenter and now has far less deaths per capita than most major Western nations that are infected. The rest of China is basically unaffected if calculating deaths per capita. South Korea, Japan, Singapore, ROC, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia are all Asian communities that had warning from seeing the situation in Wuhan and with that warning, they got deaths down to an incredibly low rate despite being so close to China compared with European countries. Some of them have very 3rd world and inefficient healthcare systems. We thought it would be a viral nuclear explosion of this hits India, but it did, and so far, it hasn't been. Even Latin America and Africa aren't reporting the insanity level of healthcare overload seen in the Caucasian countries that are affected and those places are notorious for inept management and healthcare. There are many explanations (such as these places being far less frequented for global travel and that they are less capable of proper reporting) and all likely to play factors but now I wonder if there is something to what my friend said.

 

[Blitzo]

I was thinking about an interesting conversation I had with my Chinese friend when COVID-19 had just started up in Wuhan and there were only 300 casualties in China at the time. He is a PhD and professor of virology in the states and I asked him whether he thought it would overtake SARS and kill over 1,000 people in China. He said, maybe not but uncertain. Then I said the flu kills tens of thousands of people in the US every year; this can't be that serious, can it? And he replied something that I did not follow up on. I thought he was just being a little racist and funny but now that I think of it, what he said sounds remarkably correct when comparing to data today. He said, "Yeah, but Caucasians tend to be much more vulnerable when infected by viruses that kill primarily by attacking the respiratory system." Well, he said it less eloquently; he said, "I don't know why white people die so easily from flus and stuff. Flu hardly touched them and they die."

I thought he was joking so I didn't ask him for further information but looking at the data, he sounded right! All Asian countries are dealing with COVID-19 very well. Wuhan was the epicenter and now has far less deaths per capita than most major Western nations that are infected. The rest of China is basically unaffected if calculating deaths per capita. South Korea, Japan, Singapore, ROC, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia are all Asian communities that had warning from seeing the situation in Wuhan and with that warning, they got deaths down to an incredibly low rate despite being so close to China compared with European countries. Some of them have very 3rd world and inefficient healthcare systems. We thought it would be a viral nuclear explosion of this hits India, but it did, and so far, it hasn't been. Even Latin America and Africa aren't reporting the insanity level of healthcare overload seen in the Caucasian countries that are affected and those places are notorious for inept management and healthcare. There are many explanations (such as these places being far less frequented for global travel and that they are less capable of proper reporting) and all likely to play factors but now I wonder if there is something to what my friend said.

The idea that this virus inherently adversely affects one certain ethnic or racial group is not something that we are going to entertain here on SDF.

Just as past theories about COVID adversely affecting Asian groups worse were warned and shot down on this thread, I am also warning you and others to not make unsubstantiated posts that may be potentially controversial or inflammatory. We are not a forum where discussions about these kind of inherent racial or ethnic differences are openly entertained, and it definitely isn't appropriate amidst an ongoing epidemic.

Consider this a formal warning.

 

[Tse]

I was thinking about an interesting conversation I had with my Chinese friend when COVID-19 had just started up in Wuhan and there were only 300 casualties in China at the time. He is a PhD and professor of virology in the states and I asked him whether he thought it would overtake SARS and kill over 1,000 people in China. He said, maybe not but uncertain. Then I said the flu kills tens of thousands of people in the US every year; this can't be that serious, can it? And he replied something that I did not follow up on. I thought he was just being a little racist and funny but now that I think of it, what he said sounds remarkably correct when comparing to data today. He said, "Yeah, but Caucasians tend to be much more vulnerable when infected by viruses that kill primarily by attacking the respiratory system." Well, he said it less eloquently; he said, "I don't know why white people die so easily from flus and stuff. Flu hardly touched them and they die."

I thought he was joking so I didn't ask him for further information but looking at the data, he sounded right! All Asian countries are dealing with COVID-19 very well. Wuhan was the epicenter and now has far less deaths per capita than most major Western nations that are infected. The rest of China is basically unaffected if calculating deaths per capita. South Korea, Japan, Singapore, ROC, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia are all Asian communities that had warning from seeing the situation in Wuhan and with that warning, they got deaths down to an incredibly low rate despite being so close to China compared with European countries. Some of them have very 3rd world and inefficient healthcare systems. We thought it would be a viral nuclear explosion of this hits India, but it did, and so far, it hasn't been. Even Latin America and Africa aren't reporting the insanity level of healthcare overload seen in the Caucasian countries that are affected and those places are notorious for inept management and healthcare. There are many explanations (such as these places being far less frequented for global travel and that they are less capable of proper reporting) and all likely to play factors but now I wonder if there is something to what my friend said.

well to be honest it's very clear that certain countries simply didnt take social distancing seriously. governments were afraid to look "draconian" and released a bunch of gentle half-hearted advisories, and many people of these countries were simply defiant and couldnt take instructions. this is not so much a political problem as a cultural one

here is an old article around the start of the lockdown in the US. the Chinese Red Cross said that none of the lockdowns in the West came close to what was necessary

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and this is a personal account of an American who lived in China and saw the difference in attitude

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[plawolf]

I think at this point it’s pretty much been established beyond any reasonable doubt that all the recent blame China propaganda from American politicians and American controlled western MSM are just that - propaganda.

All their baseless smear campaign and bare faced lies are easily exposed by basic facts.

Even if you ignore, or simply were not following the story closely enough to start with to see the literal brainwashing and re-written of history, just on basic logic along these American political lies are easily and decisively disproved.

Had China lied, withheld or delayed releasing key information as charged by the Americans, then no one would have managed to control the virus outbreak. Indeed, those closest to China should have been the ones hit hardest as they would have had the least time to respond.

These countries were hit first, having confirmed cases not long after China, however, if we look at infection rates and fatality rates, all of China’s Asia close neighbours are pretty much at the level of China excluding Wuhan/Hubei, precisely because China shared its knowledge and experience without delay and reservation, and that allowed its close neighbours to put in place effective screening, testing and quarantine procedures such that lockdowns were actually never required. If these countries who were confirming cases in mid-January and early February were able to effectively contain their outbreaks based on information China was sharing at that time, there is absolutely no reason the west could not have done the same, having had the same advice but also enjoyed more warning time due to geography.

The virus really only became rampant outside of Wuhan in March in Europe and then the US because unlike China’s neighbours, the Europeans and Americans did not take China’s warning seriously nor heed its advice or learn from China’s successes.

Europe put aside its pride and quietly started following China’s lead with lockdowns after they saw first hand how bad things can get in Italy and Spain, and seems to be at least turning the tide.

America is still living in denial, and to a lesser extent the UK with its half-arsed lockdown, hence their stand-out fatality figures (both in terms of absolute numbers and percentage) that are hardly flattening at all.

The issue isn’t that China didn’t give timely advice, its that the west turn their collective noses up at China’s warnings and recommendations, and were instead too busy sneering and smirking and seeking to capitalise on China’s troubles to realise they were also at risk until too late.

The only thing western governments did at the time were political stunts designed to damage China, like travel bans on Chinese only while allowing their own citizens to return from Wuhan without screening or restrictions (as if the virus cared what passport you carried); and ‘rescue’ flights to deliberately break quarantine to bring back their nationals to score cheap political points and damage China’s reputation. And they now wonder why the virus is raging out of control in their sunny uplands?

I hope this current episode is opening up some people’s eyes that there is no reason or morals or even facts when it comes to western propaganda. They will literally lie through their teeth and make black into white. This has always been the case since before WWII, it’s only they are normally far more subtle going about it. It’s only Trump’s desperation that is forcing them to be so obvious and transparent about their propaganda agenda.

You cannot reason with western MSM propaganda, as they will simply ignore or downplay inconvenient truths while drowning out all opposing views with endless repetitions of the same lies. As the saying goes, repeat a lie enough times and it becomes the ‘truth’.

The only thing that truly matters is raw economic and military power.

Thankfully China realised this long ago, and devoted its resources and efforts to growing its raw power rather than play silly ‘soft power’ media games.

The Americans are only talking about sanctions and lawsuits because of China’s power, if China was weak and defenceless, I somehow doubt they would be so ‘restrained‘.

 

[Gatekeeper]

I think at this point it’s pretty much been established beyond any reasonable doubt that all the recent blame China propaganda from American politicians and American controlled western MSM are just that - propaganda.

All their baseless smear campaign and bare faced lies are easily exposed by basic facts.

Even if you ignore, or simply were not following the story closely enough to start with to see the literal brainwashing and re-written of history, just on basic logic along these American political lies are easily and decisively disproved.

Had China lied, withheld or delayed releasing key information as charged by the Americans, then no one would have managed to control the virus outbreak. Indeed, those closest to China should have been the ones hit hardest as they would have had the least time to respond.

These countries were hit first, having confirmed cases not long after China, however, if we look at infection rates and fatality rates, all of China’s Asia close neighbours are pretty much at the level of China excluding Wuhan/Hubei, precisely because China shared its knowledge and experience without delay and reservation, and that allowed its close neighbours to put in place effective screening, testing and quarantine procedures such that lockdowns were actually never required. If these countries who were confirming cases in mid-January and early February were able to effectively contain their outbreaks based on information China was sharing at that time, there is absolutely no reason the west could not have done the same, having had the same advice but also enjoyed more warning time due to geography.

The virus really only became rampant outside of Wuhan in March in Europe and then the US because unlike China’s neighbours, the Europeans and Americans did not take China’s warning seriously nor heed its advice or learn from China’s successes.

Europe put aside its pride and quietly started following China’s lead with lockdowns after they saw first hand how bad things can get in Italy and Spain, and seems to be at least turning the tide.

America is still living in denial, and to a lesser extent the UK with its half-arsed lockdown, hence their stand-out fatality figures (both in terms of absolute numbers and percentage) that are hardly flattening at all.

The issue isn’t that China didn’t give timely advice, its that the west turn their collective noses up at China’s warnings and recommendations, and were instead too busy sneering and smirking and seeking to capitalise on China’s troubles to realise they were also at risk until too late.

The only thing western governments did at the time were political stunts designed to damage China, like travel bans on Chinese only while allowing their own citizens to return from Wuhan without screening or restrictions (as if the virus cared what passport you carried); and ‘rescue’ flights to deliberately break quarantine to bring back their nationals to score cheap political points and damage China’s reputation. And they now wonder why the virus is raging out of control in their sunny uplands?

I hope this current episode is opening up some people’s eyes that there is no reason or morals or even facts when it comes to western propaganda. They will literally lie through their teeth and make black into white. This has always been the case since before WWII, it’s only they are normally far more subtle going about it. It’s only Trump’s desperation that is forcing them to be so obvious and transparent about their propaganda agenda.

You cannot reason with western MSM propaganda, as they will simply ignore or downplay inconvenient truths while drowning out all opposing views with endless repetitions of the same lies. As the saying goes, repeat a lie enough times and it becomes the ‘truth’.

The only thing that truly matters is raw economic and military power.

Thankfully China realised this long ago, and devoted its resources and efforts to growing its raw power rather than play silly ‘soft power’ media games.

The Americans are only talking about sanctions and lawsuits because of China’s power, if China was weak and defenceless, I somehow doubt they would be so ‘restrained‘.

Exactly. Look at the daily barrage of attack coming from ONE news outlet alone. In the UK, the rabid daily mail. Just Google "daily mail China". It is as easy as that.

Here's some headline example from the 4th May alone:


China covered up severity of coronavirus and how contagious it was to hoard medical supplies from around the world, claims US intelligence as evidence mounts it leaked from Wuhan lab


National security officials are concerned China will develop a coronavirus vaccine first and try to extort the world for access


Trump says China made a 'horrible mistake' and tried to cover-up coronavirus outbreak, hours after Mike Pompeo claimed there was 'enormous evidence' that COVID-19 escaped a Wuhan lab


UK ministers were 'fully aware' China had covered up the true scale of coronavirus but still waited months to impose lockdown, MI6 source claims

2nd May

Bombshell 'Five Eyes' Western intelligence
dossier claims China lied about human-to-human transmission, 'disappeared' whistle-blowers and refused to help other countries prepare a vaccine for coronavirus


With blanket attack like this (and this is only one newspaper in the UK) it is little wonder why and how China's image in so negatives.

I'm having to constantly defend theses headlines against people in the UK. So this demonstrate how effective it has been. People believe everything they read, especially if they believe the source is creditable.

 

[Gatekeeper]

I just love this photo. So I can't help but to share it here. Grateful and respectful child pay respect to a medic.

 

[Equation]

Even this Sargon has finally given up, and drifted from the alternative stream to just falling inline with the mainstream fluff.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

In this propaganda war It is almost impossible to change the western perception of China since they control most of the world opinion maker with their domination of press, film, and new agencies . But it doesn't matter what is most important is their domestic perception of Chinese governance. In this respect I think China gain momentum in convincing their own population that they are more competence in the running the state craft due to incompetence in western response to Corona virus
Though as usual anything come form China is labelled propaganda But as they say the proof is in the pudding

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Here is excerpt
If many Chinese people are susceptible to triumphal propaganda, it’s partly because, for an increasingly large share of the population, nothing in their lived experience contradicts it. For all the doubt about the veracity of Chinese GDP growth numbers, the improvement in the quality of life for countless millions of Chinese citizens in recent decades is real, palpable, and impressive. Younger Chinese “are accustomed to the Olympics, high speed rail, and mobile payments, and have no direct personal memories of poverty, hunger, or turmoil,” says Huang. They have been raised to believe their government can deliver the goods; now, they are being taught that America’s government cannot.

“One month ago they told me the U.S. had developed testing,” began a popular comment on Weibo, posted in early April. “One month ago, they told me the U.S. could take care of its own health; one month ago they told me the U.S. would stabilize as soon as it mobilized; one month ago they said U.S. industry was developed enough to produce the needed ventilators. Now I finally understand; it was all just talk

 

[Intrepid]

A question that concerns me: does it make a difference whether I only infect myself briefly once or in many cases over a longer period of time?

At least one study says that this is very possible (not proven, but the assumption cannot be dismissed):

"Although the infection fatality rate (IFR) is much less variable than the infection rate in different parts of the country, the IFR may still be affected by certain circumstances. The community in which this study was performed experienced a super-spreading event. The IFR was unlikely affected by an overwhelmed health care system because sufficient numbers of ICU beds and ventilators were available at alltimes. However, it is possible that the super-spreading event itself caused more severe cases. In our study,we found a highly significant increase in both infection rate and number of symptoms when people attended carnival festivities, as compared to people who did not celebrate carnival. This association withcarnival was at the same level when adjusted for the age of the participants. At this point, the reason for the association with celebrating carnivalremains speculative. Thus far,wecould not identify confounding factors that would explain the observed difference. However, it is well established that the rate of particleemission and superemission during human speech increaseswith voice loudness. Because of loud voices and singing in close proximity are common in carnival events,it is reasonable to speculate that a higher viral load at the time of infection causedthe higher intensity of symptoms and thus more severe clinical courses of the infection. Notably, results from experimental human influenza infection studies havedemonstratedthat the symptom score depends on the viral dose administered. Similar observations have been made for MERS and SARS."

Source:

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The other way around: if I expose myself to a small dose of virus, maybe not a droplet infection but a virus that is picked up from surfaces by hand, is it almost like a vaccination (at least for young people)?

Then you should keep your distance but not disinfect?

 

[localizer]

In this propaganda war It is almost impossible to change the western perception of China since they control most of the world opinion maker with their domination of press, film, and new agencies . But it doesn't matter what is most important is their domestic perception of Chinese governance. In this respect I think China gain momentum in convincing their own population that they are more competence in the running the state craft due to incompetence in western response to Corona virus
Though as usual anything come form China is labelled propaganda But as they say the proof is in the pudding

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Here is excerpt
If many Chinese people are susceptible to triumphal propaganda, it’s partly because, for an increasingly large share of the population, nothing in their lived experience contradicts it. For all the doubt about the veracity of Chinese GDP growth numbers, the improvement in the quality of life for countless millions of Chinese citizens in recent decades is real, palpable, and impressive. Younger Chinese “are accustomed to the Olympics, high speed rail, and mobile payments, and have no direct personal memories of poverty, hunger, or turmoil,” says Huang. They have been raised to believe their government can deliver the goods; now, they are being taught that America’s government cannot.

“One month ago they told me the U.S. had developed testing,” began a popular comment on Weibo, posted in early April. “One month ago, they told me the U.S. could take care of its own health; one month ago they told me the U.S. would stabilize as soon as it mobilized; one month ago they said U.S. industry was developed enough to produce the needed ventilators. Now I finally understand; it was all just talk

What it really comes down to is that we’re born a different color.

No amount of propaganda will change the negative perceptions of colored peoples.