To be fair, those rudder failures occured when the rudder locked into into their max deflection. If the rudder failed in a neutral position, then there should be too much of an issue
COMAC C919
- Thread starter Deino
- Start date
I think a fully-domestically made C919 in the 2030s is overly pessimistic.
Flight testing of the CJ-1000A started in 2023 and they're aiming for certification in 2025.
And the engine is the most difficult subsystem to design and build. Everything else is relatively easy.
NB. If we look at the LEAP engine, it only took 2 years from first flight testing to service with an airline.
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COMAC is aiming for annual production of 150 C919 airliners per year by 2028, which is in 4-5 years time.
So I would expect that the C919 would be fully domestic by then, albeit the airlines would have the option of selecting a LEAP or CJ-1000A engine.
It's also worth pointing out that Boeing and Airbus produce a combined total of 900 aircraft annually of the A320 and B737 series, yet still have a 10 year order backlog.
By 2026, they'll likely be producing 1500+ annually, based on their announced plans.
So there's a market for annual production of 150 C919, and this production level would only be the beginning.
I fully expect the CJ-1000 to be used in like half the C919 orders. Where the other half would have the CFM Leap engine.
I wouldn't expect CJ-1000 to enter serial production in 2025. We know how the engine programs in China have been problematic. I would assume the accumulated experience in the sector available now would reduce issues. But for example we still don't have photos of huge numbers of in service J-20 with WS-15 engines. Or the Y-20 with WS-20 engines. Only a couple prototypes of both. And both those programs have been running for way longer than CJ-1000.
Huge production facilities for WS-15, WS-20, and CJ-1000 engines will have to be developed in China and ramped up. Together with their whole supply chains. This is a mammoth task. China did achieve this for WS-10 and naval gas turbines. So I think they can do it. But will take a lot of time and resources. Repair facilities will have to be built, and logistics will have to be developed to maintain the engines.
Before the CJ-1000 enters serial production it will have to fly on the C919 and be certified on that platform. And right now it is still being tested in the Y-20 test aircraft.
I wouldn't expect CJ-1000 to enter serial production in 2025. We know how the engine programs in China have been problematic. I would assume the accumulated experience in the sector available now would reduce issues. But for example we still don't have photos of huge numbers of in service J-20 with WS-15 engines. Or the Y-20 with WS-20 engines. Only a couple prototypes of both. And both those programs have been running for way longer than CJ-1000.
Huge production facilities for WS-15, WS-20, and CJ-1000 engines will have to be developed in China and ramped up. Together with their whole supply chains. This is a mammoth task. China did achieve this for WS-10 and naval gas turbines. So I think they can do it. But will take a lot of time and resources. Repair facilities will have to be built, and logistics will have to be developed to maintain the engines.
Before the CJ-1000 enters serial production it will have to fly on the C919 and be certified on that platform. And right now it is still being tested in the Y-20 test aircraft.
the same thing i have been trying to tell..
COMAC already replaced ''Aircraft Assembly software'' with indigenous one. this is one the most important in civilian aircraft supply chain. they also replacing imported high end machine tools with local ones..
by the time C919 will enter in serial production, most of the core components will also be domestically produced for example, CJ-1000 engine.
yeah. 2025 is not possible.. they could start small scale production after 2025-26 if everything goes well ..
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CJ-1000 handled by Shanghai team under AECC , WS-15 production is Xian's responsibility. WS-20/WS-10 is for Liming Engine institute.. WS series engines have same supply chain. CJ series have different suppliers.
China also have multiple players on single component. for example, there are three different companies for Turbine blades in mainland. for single crystal alloy mainland have two players. in which one is private firm located in Chengdu..
WS-20/WS-15 and CJ-1000 have ''pulse automatic assembly lines'' confirmed by AECC itself. a funny thing is, CJ-1000 pulse assembly line contract won by a German firm ''Broetje Automation''. that's their first project in mainland. but one thing to note is, this German company is a subsidiary of Chinese firm ''Shanghai Electric''.. Broetje Automation is currently operate from Shanghai..
the headache for China is right now, how to intact this massive supply chain. components production on this scale is itself a mammoth task. quality control and precision adds extra pressure.. so it will take time.
more Engines are in pipeline like WS-19/AEP-500/turboprop/Turboshaft/CJ-2000 entered in prototype stage. and don't forget there is new wave of heavy duty Gas turbines too... unprecedented
probably the largest in the world. if we take entire gas turbine industry of a country..
so you can see the demand.
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That was really quick!
During the 2024 Singapore Airshow today, Tibet Airlines has made a sizeable order for 40x C919s of the plateau (shortened) variant from COMAC, alongside 10x ARJ21s of the plateau variant.
【40架！C919高原型签新订单】
@tphuang @sunnymaxi FYA.
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While the airframe of the Airus is spread around several EU countries, other bits and pieces are sourced from a couple a dozen countries. AT one stage the Boeing 777 series rudder was made in China. While there's always a chance the engines of the C19 may get sanctioned I can't see them bothering with other aircraft parts as China is more than capable of supplying them domestically.