Chinese UAV/UCAV development

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vesicles

Colonel
Re: Manned fighter vs. UAVs

adding on top of that, i think the skills of a real fighter pilot was developed and shown in the air than on the ground, so i think UAVs will never be able to perform what the pilot can do in the air. not only that, the pilot's instincts, skills, will be limited to his reactions on the ground. not only is that a bad thing, i think it degenerates the quality and skills of a fighter pilot as he now has less flying hours. of course this means anyone can be trained to do the same, and less strict conditions, which also can be a bad thing as quality selection has been lowered.

I agree that fighter pilots belong to an elite group. However, fighting is not about maintaining membership in an elite club. It is about efficiently using the weapon systems and winning the fight. In this sense, I believe that the idea that "anyone can do it" is actually a good thing. In any prolonged war, depletion of skilled soldiers is a serious threat to any side. During WWII, both Germans and Japanese gained major advantage at the beginning of the war because of their highly trained and skilled soldiers. As it went, they lost most of their skilled fighters and at the end had only teenagers to fight and that contributed to their loss of the war. If one can have the weapon systems that can be operated with minimal training, that would become a major advantage in any conflict as they can maintain effeicient fighting for much longer time.

I also agree that UAV control time-lagging is a serious problem NOW. But I believe that this problem can be solved easily with the pace of telecommunication developement that we enjoy nowadays. The same can also be said about 100% visual as this would be a couple of camera away.

Further, pilot in a cockpit also does not have 100% visual at all times. He/she has to twist and turn to see what is next to them, and even more importantly, behind them. That is why attacking from above and at 6 o'clock angle is alway the golden rule in dogfights. Most of the dogfight tactics are deisgned to explore this disvantage of the inability of the pilot to maintain visual awareness all 360 deg. Yet, this won't work with UAV operators sitting in front of minitors. With all monitors capturing 360 deg view placed in front of the operator, he/she can keep 360-deg-situation-awareness at all times. No one will be able to sneak up to them from behind and hiding in the sun.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Re: Manned fighter vs. UAVs

adding on top of that, i think the skills of a real fighter pilot was developed and shown in the air than on the ground, so i think UAVs will never be able to perform what the pilot can do in the air. not only that, the pilot's instincts, skills, will be limited to his reactions on the ground.

Air time is needed for pilots and this training is absolutely crucial because they fight in the air. But "air time" would mean nothing to UAV operators because they fight "on the ground"? Thus, "ground time", or should I say "monitor time", would become the new "air time" because they will have to be trained to used the monitors to gain situation awareness and maneuver the plane. And this time, their instincts in the air won't help them a bit.
 

Londo Molari

Junior Member
Re: Manned fighter vs. UAVs

I think by the time UAV's become smart enough and powerful enough to replace manned fighters, air power will become obsolete anyway because of ground based lasers.

Armor will be back in style, and aircraft will only be used for recon. And so there will be no need to put risk human lives.

But until lasers take over, are human-remote controlled UCAV's at risk of jamming? They need to receive instructions from home base after all. Maybe artificial intelligence would prove superior there. But that could have scary consequences as we saw in the movie Stealth :p
 

tphuang

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Re: New Chinese UAV

Interesting, this is Shanfei's attempt into UAV.
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无人机研制获重大突破



西洽会期间,公司与首家客商国家测绘局签订了《开发基于无人机的低空摄影测量系统》合作意向书。此前,“翔雁”无人机完成8个起落的飞行试验验证,飞行平衡,地面视频图像清晰完整,能按程序完成各项任务,标志着“翔雁”无人机跨入自主飞行无人机行列。
“翔雁”无人机采用菱形联结翼气动外形、前三点式起落架、发动机后推式布局。机身、机翼、起落架均可拆卸和组装。采用模块化设计和选用先进的自动控制、 GPS导航等系统,能够自主飞行,适应能力强,可以用作气象探测、人工降雨、航空遥感、治安巡逻等多用途民用无人机平台,也可完成可执行目标指示、电子干扰、信号中继、战场侦察预警、战场评估、通信中断、空中监控、边境巡逻等任务,市场前景广阔。
技装公司立足长远发展,以航空为本,积极开发新的支柱产品。2007年3月组建了无人机研发试验室,9月完成模具设计和制造任务。2008年5月 2日,该型首架机在城固柳林机场试飞成功,验证了气动外形取得了该型无人机的阶段性成果,9月28日第二架机试飞成功,11月6日进行了第三次试飞,滑跑距离60米,空中姿态平稳,操纵灵活,当时机场有5级大风,能稳定飞行,安全降落,验证了飞机具有较好的抗测风能力。12月安装自动驾驶仪,加装视频传输系统,做地面联调。2009年3月达到自动驾驶飞行状态,3月14日至15日在陕西凤翔机场进行自动驾驶飞行试验,8个连续起落,实现了自动控制飞行姿态,自动按照设定的航点飞行,通过无线视频传送系统发回的空中地面监测视频清晰稳定,取得满意效果。
basically talking about Shanfei signed a deal in April with State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping for "development of low-altitude unmanned aerial vehicle based on the photogrammetric system, I guess that's what XiangYan is for. It had first flight in May of last year, did several more flights subsequently that year. Talks about use automated control to fly and then sent the data back to ground station wirelessly.

The actual link had some more stuff. The plane is 2.7 m long, the wings is 4 m wide and can loiter for 15 hours at 110 km/h. It says that it could enter the military market. But I think just based on the specs and the openness of this project, this is intended more for civilian market.
 

Blegemoth

Just Hatched
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Re: Manned fighter vs. UAVs

The last I heard for UAVs was that they could soon be hovering over many
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British cities to spot people inside their homes and to eavesdrop on their conversations.
According to the Daily Express, British lawmakers have backed the use of the eight million pound machines by police forces and
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other agencies including MI5. Crowd control, anti-terror surveillance, maritime searches and support for the Coastguard, police, fire and intelligence services are all uses being considered.
 
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Ambivalent

Junior Member
Re: UAV Discussion Thread

I have no stick time in a UAV, but I tried some ground based unmanned vehicles ( I'm a pilot by training ) and found the situational awareness to be very difficult. It was hard enough to operate the vehicle standing some meters away and looking directly at it using this complex hand held controller. Trying to operate the thing ( we were trying to pick up a water bottle off the ground ) using only the on board sensors was not easy at all. Here are the robots in question:

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I don't see these functioning in really fast paced combat such as air combat. The man machine interface is just too slow, the sensors are no replacement for a man or woman in the loop, right there in the environment of the fight.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Re: UAV Discussion Thread

I have no stick time in a UAV, but I tried some ground based unmanned vehicles ( I'm a pilot by training ) and found the situational awareness to be very difficult. It was hard enough to operate the vehicle standing some meters away and looking directly at it using this complex hand held controller. Trying to operate the thing ( we were trying to pick up a water bottle off the ground ) using only the on board sensors was not easy at all. Here are the robots in question:

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I don't see these functioning in really fast paced combat such as air combat. The man machine interface is just too slow, the sensors are no replacement for a man or woman in the loop, right there in the environment of the fight.

But how much of that is hardware weakness and how much is your familiarity with the system? I assume that some of the problems that you faced could be solved with more systematic training.

Also, I'm NOT saying that the UAVs are taking over now. I don't believe that's happenning at all. What I am saying is that eventually this will happen (say within the next 5 decades), as my original question was posted as "the future of the fighter jet". Development of sophisticated hardware and software will eventually allow UAV systems to function effective enough to counter manned systems.
 
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tphuang

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Re: New Chinese UAV

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looks like China is promoting the CH-3 + AR-1 combination to ASEAN countries, this was first shown in 2008 Zhuhai airshow.
 
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五星红旗

Just Hatched
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China equiped CH-3 UAV indicates the new tactic of striking aircraft carrier

According to Malaysia, “Kuala Lumpur Security Review”, through the platform of the Brunei International Defense Exhibition 2009 (BRIDEX 2009) For the first time to Southeast Asian countries, China promoted CH-3 unmanned strike aircraft to Southeast Asian countries...

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