Chinese UAV/UCAV development

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SanWenYu

Captain
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I want to see these launched by EM catapults from multimodal freight ports.
It might not be worth it at the end though.

First, you'd have to strengthen the aircraft structure for the stress during launching, making the UAVs more expensive to build and operate. Then it would still be too stressful for some fragile goods which are usually the high value ones.
 

manatee988

New Member
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Wikipedia is seriously outdated when it comes to Chinese military procurement. so you have taken total 31 units of Y-20. actually total airframes of Y-20 have crossed mark 55. aircraft is under serious mass production after WS-20 engine.

another very important thing to note, Y-20 have pulsating assembly line. means your production time have shortened almost half.

here are two different sets of satellite pictures. count number of Y-20Bs powered by WS-20 engines. so in couple of years PLAAF will have large fleet of Y-20.

WS-20 is in huge demand. Shenyang Aero engine firm already started to work on advance variant.
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Have there been any pictures of Y-20s flying with 4 WS-20s? Has WS-20 entered mass production yet? Last I heard it was still being tested.
 

Andy1974

Senior Member
Registered Member
It might not be worth it at the end though.

First, you'd have to strengthen the aircraft structure for the stress during launching, making the UAVs more expensive to build and operate. Then it would still be too stressful for some fragile goods which are usually the high value ones.
Perhaps, though the landing gear is swappable, so if that can take the strain then it should be ok.
 

lcloo

Captain
(UTP hereby refers to Unmanned Transport Plane)

I wonder if AVIC and other relevant Chinese aviation R&D and manufacturing institutions and companies would design and produce future UTPs that can air drop their onboard cargo by remote control, instead of having to land every single time to offload their cargo?

I do understand that the weight of the parachutes needed to be taken into account alongside the cargo (which reduces the meaningful weight of cargo that is able to be carried onboard the UTP). This results in the benefits of having a parachute for the cargo becomes somewhat negligible for smaller UTPs.

However, if the cargo weight that could be transported by future UTPs can be increased significantly, there would be more weight allowance available for attaching a parachute to the cargo, therefore making the prospects of having those larger UTPs being able to airdrop their onboard cargo more viable.

With the parachute-cargo weight distribution solved, let's move on.

Based on what I could refer from the Wikipedia, the PLAAF currently has ~165 tactical airlifters with airdrop capabilities, which is centered around Y-8s, Y-9s, IL-76s and Y-20s.

Sounds impressive if you compare it to the likes of IAF (~40), ROKAF (~16), JASDF (~36) and ROCAF (~20). But when compared to the USAF and VVS, the tactical airlifting capabilities of the PLAAF still lags behind considerably (~606 and ~490 respectively). This means the logisitical strain on the PLA in resupplying their forces on the frontline would be far greater than that of USAF and VVS, as more sorties would have to be made in order to deliver the same amount of cargo.

This is also considering that China would be facing two broad warfronts respectively:
1. Himalayan Front - The logistical chain on the Chinese side would be much longer than that of the Indian side. Besides, the higher altitudes of the Tibetan Plateau means fewer airports and airbases that are further in between for China versus India where more of their airports and airbases are located at lower altitudes.
2. Western Pacific Front (here refers to Taiwan) - In the worst case scenario, China alone would have to face the firepower of not just Taiwan, but also the US, Japan, South Korea, Australia and the UK. In such scenario, the attrition rate for the logistical chain of the PLA would be pretty immense, as there would be more enemy fighters and aerial-denial weaponry that can be be deployed against the PLAAF. Moreover, the airports and airbases that are closer to the coastlines would be subjected to enemy attacks as well, therefore hampering the ability for the PLA to resupply their troops fighting on Taiwan.

Furthermore, I don't believe that the PLAAF would just throw all of their tactical airlifter fleet into one single front, as there are other regions/fronts to be guarded against as well.

So you see, the reason why I only brought up tactical airlifters with airdrop capabilities is mainly because of the following situations that are expected during wartime:
1. No useable runways available in the vicinity to land and offload cargo;
2. Dangerous terrain formation (mountains) that renders flying normal tactical airlifters risky, especially at low visibility conditions;
3. When troops on the ground require immediate resupply of weapons, ammunition, food and equipment, but no normal tactical airflifters are available for responding to said request; and/or
4. Significant enemy anti-air defense capabilities is still present in the airdrop area, rendering any attempt at resupplying the troops in that area (airdrop or landing to offload) risky and dangerous.

Therefore, while the PLAAF is building up her tactical airlifting capabilities to catch up with at least the VVS or the USAF (hopefully), I think that fielding more, larger UTPs with airdrop capabilities would be very useful in supplementing the tactical airlifting capabilities of the PLAAF. Apart from that, compared to full-sized normal tactical airlifters, these larger UTPs would be easier to contruct, take less resources and less time to construct, and can be literally "printed out" in larger numbers.

And this is why I believe that larger UTPs with airdrop capabilities would be extremely useful in the wars in both of the aforementioned fronts.

Speaking of cargo weight:
1. Y-8 can carry up to 20 tons;
2. Y-9 can carry up to 25 (or even 30) tons;
3. IL-76 can carry up to 48 tons; and
4. Y-20 can carry up to (estimated) 55-60 tons.

Hence, I think that the permissible weight of cargo that can be carried by these larger UTPs should hower at just below that of the Y-8s and Y-9s, which is somewhere around 15-18 tons. Such cargo weight allowance would be pretty sufficient to carry weapons, ammunition, food and equipment for airdrop. Besides, most, if not all types of ground-based military logistical vehicles (i.e. trucks and vans), especially armoured personnel carriers (APC) that are in the PLAGF's disposal can also be carried and airdropped by these UTPs as well. And I believe that armoured personnel carriers are very important in protecting and sheltering troop movements in urban warfare environments, of which Taiwan has a lot to offer.

Of course, I think that it would be even better for these UTPs to have the ability to operate from airstrips, as paved runways of airports and airbases would become a hard premium during war. But it really depends on the designers of those UTPs.
A large transport drone FH-98, a derivative of Y5 light transport, has carried out an automated air drop in 2018.

0 fh98 20872.jpg0 fh98 csdw.jpg0 fh98 uhs.jpg
 

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
Have there been any pictures of Y-20s flying with 4 WS-20s? Has WS-20 entered mass production yet? Last I heard it was still being tested.
production has begun in 2021. so far we have seen total 8 to 10 Y-20Bs in Xian facility. what does it mean ? it means engine is on assembly line. most probably Y-20B officially reveal in Zhuhai Air Show this year.
 

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sunnymaxi

Major
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Great to know that WS-20 is in mass production
WS-20 is in great demand. Shenyang aero engine institute has already started to work on advance variant.

original design was meant to be 40,000 lbs thrust. but due to initial difficulty and being the first high bypass engine in PRC history. Shenyang decided to play safe. current variant front fan diameter exceed 2.1 meter with maximum take off thrust is 160KN and bypass ratio is 6

WS-20 new variant will have 2.5-2.7 meter front fan, it means bypass ratio will increase and thrust could be 45,000-50,000 lbs. WS-20 will expand like WS-10 family.
 
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