Chinese UAV/UCAV development

SinoSoldier · Nov 8, 2018

New rumors regarding the CH-7 stealthy UCAV. Take this with a grain of salt, since there is no way to verify whether OP really did hear the following from a CASC engineer or not.

So, here it goes...

The CH-7 supposedly has a payload of 2 tons for a mix of anti-ship missiles, anti-radiation missiles, and overall has a strong attack capability.
Its endurance is supposedly 12 hours (implying a range of 10000+ km) on Mach 0.5-0.6 cruising.
It is powered by two 5-ton turbofan engines.
Its radar cross-section is allegedly 0.01 square meters, which the individual claims is comparable to that of the F-117A or F-35.

The mission of the CH-7 is to attack heavily-defended high-value targets.
Besides attack, the CH-7 can also undertake reconnaissance missions and will install SARs on the leading edge of its wing. Electro-optical sensors will also be added.
The drone shown at the exhibition is an engineering prototype. Its landing gears would be the same as that of the final production variant.

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Totoro · Nov 8, 2018

What's the company behind the Sky hawk UCAV shown outside at Zhuhai? Is it really CASIC? If so, that'd make two ucavs shown designed by companies that didn't dabble before in hi-tech complex aircraft. Doesn't that seem strange?

Blitzo · Nov 8, 2018

Totoro said:
What's the company behind the Sky hawk UCAV shown outside at Zhuhai? Is it really CASIC? If so, that'd make two ucavs shown designed by companies that didn't dabble before in hi-tech complex aircraft. Doesn't that seem strange?

Yes, from CASIC.

Sort of strange, but no more strange than seeing how many companies and groups had begun offering their own fixed wing UAV products over the last few years. I think UAVs simply have a lower barrier of entry compared to manned aircraft.
Not to mention neither CASIC or CASC are exactly newcomers to high tech aerospace products and military related products (namely missiles), even if neither had histories with building manned aircraft.

I'd also add that of the flying wing UAVs we've seen at Zhuhai only CASC's CH-7 can qualify as a proper full sized UCAV (and even then it's smaller in MTOW compared to X-47B though larger than demonstrators like Neuron), whereas ones like Sky Hawk/Tianying are smaller RQ-170 sized drones. Chances are CASIC has a larger design in the works as well, and I'm sure SAC's work with Sharp Sword should've led them to something bigger and better too, and I doubt CAC is being too slack in this area either.

Totoro · Nov 8, 2018

In my opinion, making a large stealthy flying wing with a turbofan is 95% of the work, compared to the same combat aircraft but manned. A huge difference compared to a turboprop driven Predator-like UAV, which I'd rate (talking out of my bum) at 10% complexity compared to a manned combat aircraft.

Skyhawk, while smaller, seems like an actual aircraft. We know it actually flew already and has been in development for some time. While its size would make it a poor combat aircraft, the very same design should be large enough to be refined into a very potent recon platform. Hard to tell how large it is, I'd rate it at roughly half the wingspan of RQ-170 but without proper images it's impossible to gauge. Still should be enough for 6+ hours of endurance, and enough internal space for decent (fighter jet recon pod level) recon package. Coupled with stealth, its already useful.

Maybe this Skyhawk indeed is a precursor to a larger design. If so, then several more years may pass until that larger one flies. CH-7 may have skipped the subscale demostrator stage and went straight to full size. The very quotes that it's primarely for domestic use with some clear set of dates for first flight and batch production tell me it's quite likely ch-7 is the preferred platform when it comes to Chinese military. But it's still quite weird to jump to something like that out of nothing. If it was Shenyang doing it, using their experience from Lijian, I'd have no issues with that. A firm with tons of experience with planes of such size and complexity, one that has to have experience with stealth (as it was a contender for J-20) and one that actually flew a large flying wing demonstrator previously. Or are all those Chinese firms just placeholders and actual design teams simply switch between them? (wild though, i know. very unlikely)

I guess we'll know more in 2019, if CH-7 really flies then.

zaphd · Nov 8, 2018

SinoSoldier said:
New rumors regarding the CH-7 stealthy UCAV. Take this with a grain of salt, since there is no way to verify whether OP really did hear the following from a CASC engineer or not.

So, here it goes...

The CH-7 supposedly has a payload of 2 tons for a mix of anti-ship missiles, anti-radiation missiles, and overall has a strong attack capability.
Its endurance is supposedly 12 hours (implying a range of 10000+ km) on Mach 0.5-0.6 cruising.
It is powered by two 5-ton turbofan engines.
Its radar cross-section is allegedly 0.01 square meters, which the individual claims is comparable to that of the F-117A or F-35.

The mission of the CH-7 is to attack heavily-defended high-value targets.
Besides attack, the CH-7 can also undertake reconnaissance missions and will install SARs on the leading edge of its wing. Electro-optical sensors will also be added.
The drone shown at the exhibition is an engineering prototype. Its landing gears would be the same as that of the final production variant.

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2x5 tonne engines for a 13 tonne aircraft would give the CH-7 a thrust to weight ratio twice as high as the X-47B and other western subsonic flying wing drones of a similar role. I'm guessing, if there is any truth to this source, that 5 tonnes is more likely to be the total thrust.

Totoro · Nov 8, 2018

Two engines for uav of this size and configuration (visible thicker middle part of fuselage) also don't make much sense. A single engine would be both more cost effective and more fuel efficient solution.

Also, it doesn't look much like any sort of prototype, but like a simple mockup devoid of details. (albeit using actual landing gear taken from some other aircraft)

latenlazy · Nov 8, 2018

Totoro said:
In my opinion, making a large stealthy flying wing with a turbofan is 95% of the work, compared to the same combat aircraft but manned. A huge difference compared to a turboprop driven Predator-like UAV, which I'd rate (talking out of my bum) at 10% complexity compared to a manned combat aircraft.

Skyhawk, while smaller, seems like an actual aircraft. We know it actually flew already and has been in development for some time. While its size would make it a poor combat aircraft, the very same design should be large enough to be refined into a very potent recon platform. Hard to tell how large it is, I'd rate it at roughly half the wingspan of RQ-170 but without proper images it's impossible to gauge. Still should be enough for 6+ hours of endurance, and enough internal space for decent (fighter jet recon pod level) recon package. Coupled with stealth, its already useful.

Maybe this Skyhawk indeed is a precursor to a larger design. If so, then several more years may pass until that larger one flies. CH-7 may have skipped the subscale demostrator stage and went straight to full size. The very quotes that it's primarely for domestic use with some clear set of dates for first flight and batch production tell me it's quite likely ch-7 is the preferred platform when it comes to Chinese military. But it's still quite weird to jump to something like that out of nothing. If it was Shenyang doing it, using their experience from Lijian, I'd have no issues with that. A firm with tons of experience with planes of such size and complexity, one that has to have experience with stealth (as it was a contender for J-20) and one that actually flew a large flying wing demonstrator previously. Or are all those Chinese firms just placeholders and actual design teams simply switch between them? (wild though, i know. very unlikely)

I guess we'll know more in 2019, if CH-7 really flies then.

Could be that teams and personnel got shuffled between firms, giving some of the ones without a history of making planes something to start with, or these firms managed to land people who developed these skills in school but couldn’t find oppurtunities in the established drone making firms. This sort of thing is bound to happen as China’s pool of aerospace talent continues to grow.

SinoSoldier · Nov 8, 2018

zaphd said:
2x5 tonne engines for a 13 tonne aircraft would give the CH-7 a thrust to weight ratio twice as high as the X-47B and other western subsonic flying wing drones of a similar role. I'm guessing, if there is any truth to this source, that 5 tonnes is more likely to be the total thrust.

Makes sense, maybe it only has one engine.

by78 · Nov 8, 2018

HK-30G...

taxiya · Nov 8, 2018

SinoSoldier said:
New rumors regarding the CH-7 stealthy UCAV. Take this with a grain of salt, since there is no way to verify whether OP really did hear the following from a CASC engineer or not.

So, here it goes...

The CH-7 supposedly has a payload of 2 tons for a mix of anti-ship missiles, anti-radiation missiles, and overall has a strong attack capability.
Its endurance is supposedly 12 hours (implying a range of 10000+ km) on Mach 0.5-0.6 cruising.
It is powered by two 5-ton turbofan engines.
Its radar cross-section is allegedly 0.01 square meters, which the individual claims is comparable to that of the F-117A or F-35.

The mission of the CH-7 is to attack heavily-defended high-value targets.
Besides attack, the CH-7 can also undertake reconnaissance missions and will install SARs on the leading edge of its wing. Electro-optical sensors will also be added.
The drone shown at the exhibition is an engineering prototype. Its landing gears would be the same as that of the final production variant.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The model on the show and photos released by the designer clearly shows that there is only one engine.

Chinese UAV/UCAV development

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