Chinese tradition, ceremony,culture

solarz · Aug 11, 2016

Hendrik_2000 said:
Here is my response to Solarz.. Let define what is a culture
I find this definition is the most appropriate
The
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goes a step further, defining culture as shared patterns of behaviors and interactions, cognitive constructs and understanding that are learned by socialization. Thus, it can be seen as the growth of a group identity fostered by social patterns unique to the group.

You said that china still keep its culture because they still maintain the great wall and other historic relic. But that is just relic, building, place of history etc

In other word just manifestation of the culture and not the practice that goes inside this building which is the culture

When I heard about the melamine milk. I just shake my head in disbelieve How could they call themselves Chinese and do this reprehensible deed in the name of profit.
The thing is the practices is wide spread involving the farmer, the collection agency, the factory all the way to the management etc

When it is all said and done the basic teaching of Confucius is don't do to other what you don't want other do to you.

Specially for a Chinese family is the center of live and children are cherished

On this count China failed miserably. Something is definitely wrong. Don't they ever read the classic of 3 kingdom when Liu Bei against the advice of Zhou Yu attack Wu in order to exact vengeance of Kuang Yu death. Knowing well by doing it he lost the chance of restoring the Han dynasty and become the emperor himself, In order to fulfill the oath of brother hood" living together an dying together"
This act is celebrated as model of appropriateness

They need to reconnect with their past and make peace with their past.
"Without past there is no future"

Places and things are just inanimate objects. What makes those inanimate objects significant is the history and culture represented by that object.

The places and sights that I mentioned are important because of the culture that exists. The West Lake is a beautiful place, but it would just be a lake without the myriad myths and legends attached to it, and it would still be just a lake if people did not care for those myths and legends.

I think you misunderstand what culture is. No culture in the world can prevent people from doing evil. All major religions preach peace and love, yet countless horrors have been unleashed in the name of God.

China is no different from any other civilization on the planet. Chinese culture is not a magical panacea that can cure society of evil.

taxiya · Aug 11, 2016

solarz said:
Of course all culture change. The idea of "losing" culture is nebulous in itself.

I was originally responding to the idea that mainland China has somehow "lost" culture compared to other Chinese communities such as Taiwan or Singapore. I wanted to point out that the mainland Chinese culture is deeper and vastly richer than any culture from overseas Chinese communities.

I'm not denigrating the culture of these communities, they are quite rich on their own, but they cannot compare to the richness of the mainland.

No worries, that post of mine was not aiming at you at all. It was a compliment to Blitzo's reply to Mr. T's reply to my reply to Mr. T's post.

It was a continuation of my saying of the constant change.

I also agree with you that China may have "lost" some superficial parts of her culture, but she has maintained the deep core of her culture. To me dress code, ceremonies are the surface layer just like King Zhao Wuling's adoption of "barbarian" clothes. How people think, especially collective psyche is the real representation of culture, however hidden it is.

And I totally agree with your comparison with some other Chinese community. To be blatantly honest, Taiwan and Singapore population are all from part of Chinese mainland, and only a small part of. How could they be representative of the whole Chinese culture (not the political entity)? It is not even a question to be answered. But I agree with you that you have to educate some people some times.

No, I would have never considered your post as denigrating, on the contrary your posts including many other subjects demonstrated your rich knowledge of China and beyond. In the "worst" they can be regarded as constructive criticism

It is always a pleasure to read your posts.

solarz · Aug 12, 2016

taxiya said:
No worries, that post of mine was not aiming at you at all. It was a compliment to Blitzo's reply to Mr. T's reply to my reply to Mr. T's post. It was a continuation of my saying of the constant change.

I also agree with you that China may have "lost" some superficial parts of her culture, but she has maintained the deep core of her culture. To me dress code, ceremonies are the surface layer just like King Zhao Wuling's adoption of "barbarian" clothes. How people think, especially collective psyche is the real representation of culture, however hidden it is.

And I totally agree with your comparison with some other Chinese community. To be blatantly honest, Taiwan and Singapore population are all from part of Chinese mainland, and only a small part of. How could they be representative of the whole Chinese culture (not the political entity)? It is not even a question to be answered. But I agree with you that you have to educate some people some times.

No, I would have never considered your post as denigrating, on the contrary your posts including many other subjects demonstrated your rich knowledge of China and beyond. In the "worst" they can be regarded as constructive criticism It is always a pleasure to read your posts.

Thanks!

It's normal for people to believe their culture is representative, nowhere is this more apparent than in weddings. I am from Shanghai and my family came to Canada in the late 80's. My wife is from Henan, and she came to Canada in the 2000's. Our respective families had very different ideas of what our wedding/marriage should entail, and each thought their expectations were proper "Chinese culture". Needless to say, it caused us a lot of stress!

Fortunately, everything worked out, and through the process I learned a lot about differences in Chinese cultures. One of the most amusing one was that in the South, weddings take place in the evening, unless it was a "second marriage", in which case it takes place at noon. In the North, it's the exact opposite, with weddings typically taking place at noon, except for "second marriage" which takes place in the evening.

PanAsian · Aug 12, 2016

Hendrik_2000 said:
...
When I heard about the melamine milk. I just shake my head in disbelieve How could they call themselves Chinese and do this reprehensible deed in the name of profit.
The thing is the practices is wide spread involving the farmer, the collection agency, the factory all the way to the management etc

When it is all said and done the basic teaching of Confucius is don't do to other what you don't want other do to you.

Specially for a Chinese family is the center of live and children are cherished

On this count China failed miserably. Something is definitely wrong.
...

Regarding the melamine in milk scandal that can at most be used as an example of poor morals among particular individuals, even if it is a large absolute number of individuals they ultimately remain an extremely small proportion of all of society. That Chinese society in general found this behavior unacceptable is proof that it did not "lose culture".

An analogous example is the financial crisis in the US which had parallels in many other nations and societies, did all of these nations and societies "lose culture"?

A point others have been making and that I am making here as well is that all cultures are constantly changing.

For something to exemplify a culture it must be either be so widely accepted or practiced as to approach being universal within that culture or be so revered as a tenet that it stands the test of time.

Mr T said:
...
I have to laugh, whenever I get into a discussion with Chinese people or people who care deeply about China, when they get upset about something they frequently default to "you too" arguments. And that's happening here. But it's irrelevant, because the fact some countries have lost some of their culture doesn't mean China hasn't either. It's like a drunk person being challenged over the amount they've drunk, and them pointing to someone throwing up in the street saying "but he's drunk too!"

Culture is also an adaptation to circumstance so introspection and circumspection of conditions, norms, and trends are appropriate when talking about culture especially contemporary culture in a highly interconnected world.

taxiya · Aug 12, 2016

solarz said:
Thanks!

It's normal for people to believe their culture is representative, nowhere is this more apparent than in weddings. I am from Shanghai and my family came to Canada in the late 80's. My wife is from Henan, and she came to Canada in the 2000's. Our respective families had very different ideas of what our wedding/marriage should entail, and each thought their expectations were proper "Chinese culture". Needless to say, it caused us a lot of stress!

Fortunately, everything worked out, and through the process I learned a lot about differences in Chinese cultures. One of the most amusing one was that in the South, weddings take place in the evening, unless it was a "second marriage", in which case it takes place at noon. In the North, it's the exact opposite, with weddings typically taking place at noon, except for "second marriage" which takes place in the evening.

Haha thanks for teaching me. I have no idea about the southern custom. In the north, the bride must arrive the groom's home before noon.

I myself is from western China and to us many muslim cuisine traditions are also part of our own daily food. Another example of Chinese snowballing culture.

I am really proud of being a Chinese in the sense of Big, Great, Vast and Diversity. To me, the opposite is simply boring and being proud of it is stupid.

taxiya · Aug 12, 2016

Hendrik_2000 said:
Here is my response to Solarz.. Let define what is a culture
I find this definition is the most appropriate
The
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
goes a step further, defining culture as shared patterns of behaviors and interactions, cognitive constructs and understanding that are learned by socialization. Thus, it can be seen as the growth of a group identity fostered by social patterns unique to the group.

You said that china still keep its culture because they still maintain the great wall and other historic relic. But that is just relic, building, place of history etc

In other word just manifestation of the culture and not the practice that goes inside this building which is the culture

When I heard about the melamine milk. I just shake my head in disbelieve How could they call themselves Chinese and do this reprehensible deed in the name of profit.
The thing is the practices is wide spread involving the farmer, the collection agency, the factory all the way to the management etc

When it is all said and done the basic teaching of Confucius is don't do to other what you don't want other do to you.

Specially for a Chinese family is the center of live and children are cherished

On this count China failed miserably. Something is definitely wrong. Don't they ever read the classic of 3 kingdom when Liu Bei against the advice of Zhou Yu attack Wu in order to exact vengeance of Kuang Yu death. Knowing well by doing it he lost the chance of restoring the Han dynasty and become the emperor himself, In order to fulfill the oath of brother hood" living together an dying together"
This act is celebrated as model of appropriateness

They need to reconnect with their past and make peace with their past.
"Without past there is no future"

Here a goo video about Chinese new year

I see a flaw in your assertion. You said about the "melamine milk" scandal, then you assert that the culture is lost. But one must remember that Chinese are not all saints, those people who do evil things are Chinese, but they are far from the majority. One can not expect every individual in a society to be up to the standard of what Saint teaches. It is true everywhere, this is not to compete to the low, but simply a fact. It is human nature.

What you talked about the negative things are facts, but they are simply not the evidence of loosing culture.

solarz · Aug 12, 2016

taxiya said:
Haha thanks for teaching me. I have no idea about the southern custom. In the north, the bride must arrive the groom's home before noon.

I myself is from western China and to us many muslim cuisine traditions are also part of our own daily food. Another example of Chinese snowballing culture.

I am really proud of being a Chinese in the sense of Big, Great, Vast and Diversity. To me, the opposite is simply boring and being proud of it is stupid.

Which part of western China are you from? My wife was born in Gansu and most of her extended family are still there, with some others in Xinjiang.

taxiya · Aug 12, 2016

solarz said:
Which part of western China are you from? My wife was born in Gansu and most of her extended family are still there, with some others in Xinjiang.

Shaanxi. Relatives in Ningxia, Gansu and Qinghai.

So you may understand that I would enjoy Tibetan and Mongolian songs and food more than Han Chinese music and food from the eastern coast. Don't be angry with me (I believe you won't) because that is the environment and custom I was brought up in, spicy, strong food and rough screaming from the harsh high plateau.

solarz · Aug 12, 2016

taxiya said:
Shaanxi. Relatives in Ningxia, Gansu and Qinghai.

So you may understand that I would enjoy Tibetan and Mongolian songs and food more than Han Chinese music and food from the eastern coast. Don't be angry with me (I believe you won't) because that is the environment and custom I was brought up in, spicy, strong food and rough screaming from the harsh high plateau.

That part of China produces amazing singers! I especially Mongolian-style songs and how they evoke images of riding freely upon a vast grassland. I'd love to visit inner Mongolia one of these days, just to see that legendary grassland.

There are just so many amazing places to see in China, and almost every single one is soaked in culture!

taxiya · Aug 12, 2016

solarz said:
That part of China produces amazing singers! I especially Mongolian-style songs and how they evoke images of riding freely upon a vast grassland. I'd love to visit inner Mongolia one of these days, just to see that legendary grassland.

There are just so many amazing places to see in China, and almost every single one is soaked in culture!

Try riding a horse when you are there on the grass land. I did once, it is amazingly different feeling, imagine yourself of those great names who fought at those frontiers. We should remember all those names who fought on the grassland, the desert to the north and west and out in the sea in the east and south. Those names made us Chinese and shaped China as we know today.

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