The reason for the phonological similarity of Korean, Japanese, and Vietnamese words to Southern Chinese dialects has nothing to do with more maritime trade with those specific regions. The Western pronunciation of "tea" is indeed derived from Hokkien, but the countries of the Sinosphere were already under heavy Chinese linguistic influence from the time when Middle Chinese was still spoken across China (i.e. Tang and Song dynasties). Back then, people in the north spoke a language that sounded more similar to modern southern dialects. Cantonese and Mandarin did not yet exist, and the northern and southern dialects were far more similar than they are today. Hokkien is actually the exception since it is derived from Old Chinese instead of Middle Chinese, although it still has heavy Middle Chinese influence. How tea is pronounced across East Asia actually proves my point, since tea sounds like "cha" in every Chinese dialect except those of the Min family, and it's the same in Korean, Japanese, and Vietnamese.
Chinese tradition, ceremony,culture
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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The reason for the phonological similarity of Korean, Japanese, and Vietnamese words to Southern Chinese dialects has nothing to do with more maritime trade with those specific regions. The Western pronunciation of "tea" is indeed derived from Hokkien, but the countries of the Sinosphere were already under heavy Chinese linguistic influence from the time when Middle Chinese was still spoken across China (i.e. Tang and Song dynasties). Back then, people in the north spoke a language that sounded more similar to modern southern dialects. Cantonese and Mandarin did not yet exist, and the northern and southern dialects were far more similar than they are today. Hokkien is actually the exception since it is derived from Old Chinese instead of Middle Chinese, although it still has heavy Middle Chinese influence. How tea is pronounced across East Asia actually proves my point, since tea sounds like "cha" in every Chinese dialect except those of the Min family, and it's the same in Korean, Japanese, and Vietnamese.
(I forgot to actually give the reason why southern dialects are more similar to other Asian languages.) Mandarin is so different phonologically from the southern dialects and the Sino-Xenic vocabularies of other East Asian languages since it evolved the most radically from Middle Chinese. This probably has something to do with how unstable North China had been from the end of the Song dynasty to the beginning of the Qing and the fact that flat, continuous topography is far more conducive to linguistic shifts. You can see a parallel in how Vulgar Latin, the former language of the Roman Empire, is best preserved in the Sardinian language, while the other Romance languages have undergone far more radical shifts - such as French, which is by far the least conservative descendant of Latin.
Since I don't want to encourage regional divisions (an age-old problem that seems to have re-emerged more harshly in the past 30 years), here is a beautiful compilation of readings of a Tang poem in many different Chinese dialects and also Korean and Japanese. It also includes reconstructed readings in both Middle Chinese and Ming dynasty-Mandarin towards the end. This was a collaborative effort on the Chinese internet which took many months to find speakers from all across China.
solarz
Brigadier
Thank you very much for this. It was a fascinating watch.
I am convinced now that the genius of Tang poetry lies not in the way it was originally pronounced, but in the beauty of its words, regardless of pronounciation.
For myself, the more familiar the dialect, the better sounding it was.
Found this beautiful MV of Hanfu clothing
I think this is part of a series of videos showcasing traditional Chinese clothing. The cinematography is stunning.
I think this is part of a series of videos showcasing traditional Chinese clothing. The cinematography is stunning.
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solarz
Brigadier
Hanfu is not "traditional" Chinese clothing. It is historical Chinese clothing. In fact, a mishmash of the historical fashions of various dynasties, with a generous dose of modern interpretation added in.
"Tradition" means a set of customs and beliefs that are transmitted from generation to generation. Hanfu has not been worn by anyone for 300 years.
The current "Hanfu" is a reinterpretation and mix of clothing of Han/Huaxia people from various dynasties and historical periods. Clothing of Han/Huaxia has changed drastically in the past 3000 years. If we put clothes of Ming female dress on the side of Tang female dress, you would not even call them the same.
The current "Hanfu" trend is more based on Qin and Han dynasty. While the cloth in your video is more of a creation of modern TV shows. It is IMO a mix of upper side of Qin/Han with a lower side of Tang (and afterwards).
Basically, there is no one type of Chinese traditional clothing that can be defined by today's "Hanfu" concept.
Actually, it was Zhejiang and Jiangsu having more trade and being more influential to Japan and Korea in their languages. While Henan and Shan'xi had their influence on Japan and Korea through political exchange (Qiantangshi 遣唐使) See this
Fujian and Guangdong became more prominent in oversea trade and therefor influences from the late Southern Song dynasty till Qing (11th century to 20th). But their dialects did not make much impact on Japanese and Korean.
Another proof (not excluding others) is that in the late 1990s when 中野良子 visited China, she was fascinated by realizing how many Sino-Japanese words are closely pronounced in Wu (Zhejiang) dialect.
solarz
Brigadier
That reminds me of the joke where a Japanese-sounding phrase turns out to be Shanghainese for "鞋子没坏，鞋带先坏".