Chinese submarines thread

[Gollevainen]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Soviet goals were fully thougth, Im not saying that, but it focused outset first on the coastal defence with emphasis on small guard ships and submarines, and afterwards came the cruisers and destroyers. But all the doctrines and naval leaders that where to led the soviet navy in the Missile Age, were all forged in the coastal defence 'pool' and thats clearly evident when VMF actually gained blue water status in the late 60's.

Their big ships where still bigger analongs from coastal defence units, packed into brigade formations led from the centralised way from ground bases and incorporated mostly ships with single defensive purpose (either ASW or Guard ship function, or firing Anti-ship missiles against intruding opponents amph. ships and carriers). Only in early 1970s, in the famous Okean exersise, they begun to realise how inaequate this was to their goals to become fully fledged 'fleet' and they begun to fix the system, but many elements reamained...

 

[ahho]

Re: Chinese sub thread

well haven't search the forum for this, but has there been study by the chinese side to impr0ve the speed of subs like what US is studying right now. I couldn't remember the detais but it involves creating a air buble around the sub so it could glide through the water with reduced drag.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: Chinese sub thread

well haven't search the forum for this, but has there been study by the chinese side to impr0ve the speed of subs like what US is studying right now. I couldn't remember the detais but it involves creating a air buble around the sub so it could glide through the water with reduced drag.

It's called super-cavitating. Most studies in the military look at it as a technology to be applied to weapons, not the boats themselves. If a sub traveled in this fashion, it would be fast, but it would also be completely deaf, and everyone would know exactly where they were.

 

[Violet Oboe]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Recently some interesting information disseminated from several sources (I think it is quite reliable but forgive me for not revealing my source):

The first unit of type 094 (Jin class) shown on some pics last year is actually not a ´real´094! This unit which made sea trials since late '04 is indeed a modified 092 type (Xia class) intended to test new sub technologies.

The next 4 units already in planning and building will be ´real´type 094's of a different (more displacement, 16 SLBM) and clearly more advanced design. Huludao had obviously to hammer out some problems and deficiencies (reactor, may be weapon systems) before they could jump to the ´big ones´!

Personally I suspected that this could be the case in some of my postings last fall but honestly I am surprised that Huludao built a mod Xia two decades after the first. Probably this will raise again questions about the loss of a second unit at sea around '85 or a suggested order directly from Deng Xiaoping to ´conserve´a second nearly completed Xia unit for reasons undisclosed (probably technical obstacles and financial restrictions).
What do you think about the story, knowledgeable friends, true or disinformation?

Best regards Violet Oboe

 

[RedMercury]

Re: Chinese sub thread

well haven't search the forum for this, but has there been study by the chinese side to impr0ve the speed of subs like what US is studying right now. I couldn't remember the detais but it involves creating a air buble around the sub so it could glide through the water with reduced drag.

There was a news article in Xinhua or some other official source a few years back about a breakthrough in this technology for surface vessels. Amusingly it didn't raise up a big fuss in any of SDF CDF CMF, but I don't know about the Chinese language boards.

It's not surprising that they are working on it. Everyone is working on it. The proof will be, as always, in the pudding.

 

[Finn McCool]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Recently some interesting information disseminated from several sources (I think it is quite reliable but forgive me for not revealing my source):

The first unit of type 094 (Jin class) shown on some pics last year is actually not a ´real´094! This unit which made sea trials since late '04 is indeed a modified 092 type (Xia class) intended to test new sub technologies.

The next 4 units already in planning and building will be ´real´type 094's of a different (more displacement, 16 SLBM) and clearly more advanced design. Huludao had obviously to hammer out some problems and deficiencies (reactor, may be weapon systems) before they could jump to the ´big ones´!

Personally I suspected that this could be the case in some of my postings last fall but honestly I am surprised that Huludao built a mod Xia two decades after the first. Probably this will raise again questions about the loss of a second unit at sea around '85 or a suggested order directly from Deng Xiaoping to ´conserve´a second nearly completed Xia unit for reasons undisclosed (probably technical obstacles and financial restrictions).
What do you think about the story, knowledgeable friends, true or disinformation?

Best regards Violet Oboe

What do I think? I don't think it matters. The 094 has arrived. The PLAN seems to have worked quite a while on it and it must be satisfactory-the PLAN has shown no indication that it will attach itself to a bad sub design. This can be seen by the fact that only one or two 092s were built, and the fact that the 093 seems to be a testbed/trial run and the production boat will be the 095.

 

[maozedong]

Re: Chinese sub thread

all the chinese nuclear subs family are here now, some one said type 094 showed last year is not ture, we can review them aney mistake or not.
I saw that pic last year the sub is not mordern but the hull is different than 092 above,every body knows 092 is improved to 092m, but the hull is still same. maybe that sub showed last year is foreign sub? I just guess.

 

[Violet Oboe]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Just crosschecked the story today with a senior academic friend and he maintains that he heard from several reputable american scholars specialized in chinese military and/or security studies that the guys from naval college in Annapolis were talking about two type 092/092 mod units for some time now. The ´new ´092 mod and the two 093's are basically intended for testing and training purposes since PLAN has to accumulate reliable experience with new technologies and create a core group of young submarine officers able to man the forthcoming units. The real new SSBN (094 mod/ 096?) will ´surface´ in the next few years and will have a displacement of around 10000 ts and an armament of 16 SLBM's. (so or slightly similar goes the story and some bits of that have emerged already on some US blogs of more or less clever people )

The main PLAN nuclear submarine fleet will consist of type 095 SSN and type 094 mod/ 096? SSBN and around 2015 4-6 095 and 4 new type SSBN will be commissioned by then. Additionally the facilities in Huludao have been expanded and considerably modernized in the last few years enabling them to produce one unit every 18 months. (a check by me on Google Earth made me sceptical about this, perhaps China has been building a second nuclear sub yard at another location? or that f****** Google Earth is a fat fake!:nono: )

Obviously I am not able to confirm the details but my opinion is that where is smoke there is certainly a fire!

@maozedong: nice pics! I do not think that our mysterious pic shows a foreign sub since the similarities to Xia type are very striking and the sub appears to be indeed brand new. May be we should find a buddy in Qingdao who also knows some things about subs!

 

[bd popeye]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Just crosschecked the story today with a senior academic friend and he maintains that he heard from several reputable american scholars specialized in chinese military and/or security studies that the guys from naval college in Annapolis were talking about two type 092/092 mod units for some time now.

I find this statement very intresting. If anyone would know what the PLAN has "up it's sleeve" it's the USN. My source in the USN is gone. My son is transgfering from active duty to a drilling reservist in two months. And my other source finally retired just before Christmas..

(a check by me on Google Earth made me sceptical about this, perhaps China has been building a second nuclear sub yard at another location? or that f****** Google Earth is a fat fake! )

The problem with those google earth digital pics is that they are up to 6 years old. And the newest one is about 2003. I can tell by the construction in various cities.

 

[maozedong]

Re: Chinese sub thread

.

above pic I think should be JL-1 launched from some launch platform under the water in 80' century, maybe some body already have seen this pic, if so, just for review.
I think China still only has one nuclear sub building yard in Hulutao, and 3 nuclear sub base - Hulutao - Qingtao - Hainan. maybe they mixed sub building yard and sub base?