Chinese Soft Power and Media Discussion and Updates

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
Речь идет не о том, чтобы кому-то угодить, а о том, чтобы сделать свою культуру привлекательной, тем самым повысив свой престиж и увеличив туризм в вашей стране. Если бы Китаю не нужна была вся эта мягкая сила, он бы не вкладывал столько денег в продвижение своей культуры за пределами Китая. Но Китаю нужна, поэтому ему это нужно. Но Китай в этом отношении все еще слаб; ему не хватает опыта и квалифицированных кадров, а цензура все убивает. И репутация Китая не самая лучшая не только из-за вмешательства США, но и из-за действий самих китайцев. Это создает соответствующее отношение к Китаю, и мягкая сила перестает работать. Как человек, путешествующий по Юго-Восточной Азии, я лично ощутил различия между Китаем, Кореей и Японией, и в культурном отношении поездка была не в пользу Китая.
This is the same argument of soft power vs hard power.

And time and time again it has shown that hard power is needed before one can have a soft power push.

In the last few months we have seen the limited of soft power when it comes up against hard power. Eg. EU, south Korea, japan, etc. There did their soft power get them in relations with the US? Or the war in Ukraine? A whole lot of taking it up the @SS. Lol!

Soft power is easily taken away, but hard power is there to stay.

I agree with china not investing as much in soft power in the last couple decades. Once their hard power has matured then they can focus more on soft power

Btw your anecdotal evidence while traveling has nothing to do with media soft power. It has everything to do with human development and upbringing
Given that china got powerful in one generation, it's understandable that Chinese travellers are not accustomed to traveling overseas as much especially those who travel are in the older generation. Doesn't mean shit when it comes to geopolitics.

US marines kill and r@pe Japanese citizens in Japanese soil, and where do Japanese soft power get them? Lol not a fucking thing. Does it destroy US soft power? Lol no. Because their hard power is still intact.

Russia is at war with Ukraine, their soft power in Europe is non existent. But they don't give a shit. Is the world gonna stop buying their oil? Is japan gonna stop buying their oil? No! Is the EU gonna bomb Moscow into submission? Lol I like to see them try.
 

Moonscape

Junior Member
Registered Member
They are like America. When everything is smooth, they appear pretty cool, but when the going gets tough, they fall apart. Right now South Korea is not in an enviable place. It is laden with overwork culture, left vs right, male vs female hatred and the lowest fertility rate in the world. There is also no hope or direction for the country. What are they fighting for? Koreans are generally a hard-working, high achieving people, but there just too few of them with too few resources to achieve stand-alone greatness so they are standing "tall" on a house of economic and foundational science cards they earned by kneeling to America. It's where China would be under the KMT, but you will never become number 1 that way.

The answer you received is very correct (but it is only one part; I will touch on the other aspects below). As a rival to America and the West, China is often demonized so that Americans default to a negative stigma and do not truly explore the contents of Chinese media. They think it's nothing but communist brainwash. But this can only hold for so long as Western power eclipses Chinese power. When that is not true, as we see now, Chinese light starts to shine through the edges and cracks as Chinese pop culture gains popularity worldwide.

Look at North Korea and look at Detroit; which is the prison? LOL

Because Hong Kong, just like South Korea, bows to Western power rather than confronting it. You see a pattern here?

It is starting to do so but will explode once the US is displaced and no longer able to control media to suppress the growth of Chinese culture worldwide.

Nahhh, I'm sorry but it's your inability to think that we don't like about you.

We did. Sign a deal with the devil and the immediate rewards will come but your future is gone. Not that South Korea had any ability to compete with the US; this is China's deal that we turned down. South Korea's deal is to be a helpless lapdog to the US in order to be viewed as harmless, and that drops people's guard, allowing them to be liked. It's just like Japan. Do you think Japanese culture was popular and seem positively in the US during WWII or before? No; it all blew up once Japan bent both knees and it was no longer a threat, allowing it to be harmless and thus likeable.

So I will touch upon the other aspects that have kept Chinese media culture consumption much mlower than Korean media culture consumption worldwide.

Another factor is relatibility. Korea's struggles are fairly normal for what developed countries face, but China's struggles are not relatable to these countries. China's struggles are about how to develop from a poor backwards country into a challenger to the world throne on your own talent under suppression from the lone superpower. Westerners and other countries on their knees don't relate to this; they are told that it is a struggle of evil to break international law and order. When they see the enemy in Chinese films defeated, they watch with the bitterness that that enemy is them! So how can they enjoy Chinese media?

Finally, I can also say that China is an extremely STEM-focused society because the mantra of the nation is the become strong with technology so as to never suffer unfairness again. So Chinese culture has it that the best talents are all invested in STEM; it's a sign of stupidity in China, particularly in the older days, to not study STEM. Only those who are not so smart take up artistic majors. South Korea, on the other hand, has a much more artistic culture, delegating a huge portion of its talent to performance arts. Culturally, being an actor/actress is seen as the holy grail in Korea similar to how Chinese people see a top engineer/scientist. As China becomes more modern and the threat of technological backwardness is defeated, China is becoming more artistic, and thus we see a corresponding rise in Chinese dramas/games/shows worldwide, but it is in its infancy compared to South Korea.

That's in technology, not so much culture.

Your question is not whether all countries are the same; your question is why Chinese media is not as popular as Korean so the answer is given to you. The world is filled with talentless schmucks not worth the hairs off a rat's ass but China and Korea are not among those countries.

Not on their own. They obediently stood on the fundamentals given to them, and given they are very smart people compared to the world average, but not to China, it's a recipe for being a well-fed fat and happy lapdog. But the ceiling to their development is their master. America's not just not stopping them; America rewards them for their obedience and those are big rewards considering how small South Korea is.

You're replying to an IDF-supporting, Palestinian genocide-denying anti-China concern troll. He's not worth your time.
 

Valentine

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Сколько денег Китай потратил на продвижение своей культуры среди иностранцев? Я не очень в курсе, но помню, что недавно они ввели безвизовый режим.
The Confucius Institute; almost all of my former classmates from post-Soviet countries received grants through it.

CGTN broadcasts outside of China, for example, in Russia.

Many cultural events are held in Russia, Kazakhstan, and other post-Soviet countries.

At the initiative of the Chinese Cultural Institute, Tode, cultural events are held.

But the problem is that many of these events are organized in a way that doesn't interest young people, as they're based on the templates of the ancient Soviet era, which simply wastes the enormous funds allocated for all of this. I attended a Chinese cultural festival in Almaty, and believe me, some local cosplay festival does a much better job of promoting Japanese culture than all these festivals organized by China in Kazakhstan, for two reasons: the target audience isn't young people, and the organization was poor, with weak communication.

For example, I've been to two festivals: one in Almaty, organized by China, and the other in Astana, the "Japanese Culture Festival," which took place recently. So, a group of enthusiasts organized a festival that was much more appealing than a large corporation.

First of all, no one knew about the Chinese culture festival; there were no signs or advertisements, and only a few mentions on local TV channels.

A bunch of disparate, chaotic tents, most of which weren't about traditional Chinese culture at all. They had some kind of equipment, and the tents themselves were awful, with greasy billboards imitating traditional interiors and a general disorganization. It was like a marketplace, not a cultural festival. Only a couple of Tang dances, Peking opera, and a few circus acts were on stage, and that's all. A couple of girls in Tang Hanfu walked around and took photos. It felt more like a matinee with a Chinese theme.

Japanese festivals were promoted in Astana on Instagram, TT, and Telegram. Everything was well done; they tried to convey the Japanese atmosphere as best they could. The tents and their design were also top-notch—not just 1080p prints on the wall, but actual three-dimensional interior elements. They invited Kyudo, Kendo, and Karate masters. There were cosplay zones, pop music zones, game zones, and exteriors in the style of Japanese cities, with their flags, lamps, and so on. Overall, they not only created a traditional atmosphere but also allowed guests to interact with the participants and the surrounding area. And as a big fan of Chinese culture, I enjoyed the Japanese festival much more because it wasn't done in a "good enough" style. I get the feeling that the people responsible for promoting Chinese culture don't understand what Chinese culture is or who should be promoting it.

The same goes for the media. Japanese shows are well-known, Korean ones not as well, but they're catching up. China is still lagging far behind in both quantity and quality.

This doesn't mean I'm saying China sucks. In my free time, I translate Chinese products into Russian for free so that as many people as possible can see China. But I also see a frequent lack of care for their products in this media sector.
 

Valentine

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Это тот же аргумент «мягкой силы» против «жесткой силы».

И снова и снова это показывает, что прежде чем можно будет применить мягкую силу, нужна жесткая сила.

В последние несколько месяцев мы увидели ограниченность мягкой силы, когда она сталкивается с жёсткой силой. Например, ЕС, Южная Корея, Япония и т.д. Помогла ли им мягкая сила наладить отношения с США? Или начать войну на Украине? Столько всего выплеснулось на @SS. Ха-ха!

Мягкую силу легко убрать, а жесткая сила останется.

Согласен с тем, что Китай в последние пару десятилетий не так много инвестировал в мягкую силу. Как только их жёсткая сила окрепнет, они смогут больше сосредоточиться на мягкой силе.

Кстати, ваши рассказы из путешествий не имеют никакого отношения к «мягкой силе» СМИ. Они имеют прямое отношение к развитию и воспитанию человека.
Учитывая, что Китай стал могущественным всего за одно поколение, понятно, что китайские путешественники не так часто путешествуют за границу, особенно те, кто путешествует из старшего поколения. Это ничего не значит, когда речь идёт о геополитике.

Американские морпехи убивают и насилуют японских граждан на японской земле, и куда их девает японская мягкая сила? Лол, ни хрена. Разве это разрушает мягкую силу США? Лол, нет. Потому что их жёсткая сила всё ещё нетронута.

Россия воюет с Украиной, их мягкая сила в Европе бессильна. Но им плевать. Неужели мир перестанет покупать их нефть? Неужели Япония перестанет покупать их нефть? Нет! Неужели ЕС разбомбит Москву, чтобы она подчинилась? Лол, мне нравится смотреть, как они пытаются.
Может быть, не стоит бросаться из крайности в крайность? Жёсткая сила нужна для продвижения наших интересов на мировой арене. Мягкая сила нужна для имиджа страны и её культурного развития.

Япония — колония США, это факт, но интерес к их культуре и уважение к их имиджу — это тоже сила. Как бы американцы ни насиловали японок, японцам многое сходит с рук благодаря их имиджу. Все уже забыли о сбросе радиоактивной воды; если бы это сделал Китай, вой был бы подобен волку, попавшему в капкан с яйцами. И не говорите о покровительстве США; покровительство США не помогло Израилю отмыть руки от грязи.

Китаю нужна как хорошая, твердая, увесистая палка, чтобы бить кого угодно, так и пряник, с помощью которого он может привлекать людей к своей культуре, одновременно улучшая свой имидж.

Это моя точка зрения, я никого не заставляю ей следовать. Похоже, тут есть спор.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Может быть, не стоит бросаться из крайности в крайность? Жёсткая сила нужна для продвижения наших интересов на мировой арене. Мягкая сила нужна для имиджа страны и её культурного развития.

Япония — колония США, это факт, но интерес к их культуре и уважение к их имиджу — это тоже сила. Как бы американцы ни насиловали японок, японцам многое сходит с рук благодаря их имиджу. Все уже забыли о сбросе радиоактивной воды; если бы это сделал Китай, вой был бы подобен волку, попавшему в капкан с яйцами. И не говорите о покровительстве США; покровительство США не помогло Израилю отмыть руки от грязи.

Китаю нужна как хорошая, твердая, увесистая палка, чтобы бить кого угодно, так и пряник, с помощью которого он может привлекать людей к своей культуре, одновременно улучшая свой имидж.

Это моя точка зрения, я никого не заставляю ей следовать. Похоже, тут есть спор.

Do you have a problem communicating in English?
 

GulfLander

Colonel
Registered Member
Another SKorean show alleged portraying China/Chinese as villain.

Google translated:
Lin Yuner's new drama "The Chef of the Tyrant" has caused controversy: The envoy of the Ming Dynasty was portrayed as a villain and knelt down and begged for mercy, which made everyone dissatisfied

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
Может быть, не стоит бросаться из крайности в крайность? Жёсткая сила нужна для продвижения наших интересов на мировой арене. Мягкая сила нужна для имиджа страны и её культурного развития.

Япония — колония США, это факт, но интерес к их культуре и уважение к их имиджу — это тоже сила. Как бы американцы ни насиловали японок, японцам многое сходит с рук благодаря их имиджу. Все уже забыли о сбросе радиоактивной воды; если бы это сделал Китай, вой был бы подобен волку, попавшему в капкан с яйцами. И не говорите о покровительстве США; покровительство США не помогло Израилю отмыть руки от грязи.

Китаю нужна как хорошая, твердая, увесистая палка, чтобы бить кого угодно, так и пряник, с помощью которого он может привлекать людей к своей культуре, одновременно улучшая свой имидж.

Это моя точка зрения, я никого не заставляю ей следовать. Похоже, тут есть спор.
This is not an argument. It’s a discussion
we are looking at this from 2 different points of views

you are saying “hey look, China needs to do a better job with promoting its culture and cultural exchanges, look at Japan and how they do it. China should focus more on that “

what I’m saying is “how do these cultural exchanges influence geopolitical and business policies in any large way? your mentioned that Israel committing genocide continues to be criticized even with US support, but has that criticism amounts to anything substantial like sanctions? No fly zone over gaza? Not really, and the US is allowing Israel to silence online voices criticizing them.
you mentioned that Japan dumping toxic water into the ocean has been given a pass, I believe that’s because the US gave them a pass and the US controls IAEA.
so I see what you mean by China should do more to promote cultural exchanges, but I wonder how much cultural exchanges turn into positive policy without hard power to back it up. “
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
If China didn't have any "soft power" then why is the West obsessed with China? China's neighbors are upset that China gets attention they think they deserve more. Did China point a gun to someone's head to get that? No. The critics say China uses its market to get what it wants from others. That's soft power because if countries do whatever for China, it's because they chose to. They can choose not to and that's their own decision not because they were forced by China. It's no different from the US using their ability to like something from another country or not. The US uses consequences to make others to seek to be liked by them.
 

Elevenz

New Member
Registered Member
The Confucius Institute; almost all of my former classmates from post-Soviet countries received grants through it.

CGTN broadcasts outside of China, for example, in Russia.

Many cultural events are held in Russia, Kazakhstan, and other post-Soviet countries.

At the initiative of the Chinese Cultural Institute, Tode, cultural events are held.

But the problem is that many of these events are organized in a way that doesn't interest young people, as they're based on the templates of the ancient Soviet era, which simply wastes the enormous funds allocated for all of this. I attended a Chinese cultural festival in Almaty, and believe me, some local cosplay festival does a much better job of promoting Japanese culture than all these festivals organized by China in Kazakhstan, for two reasons: the target audience isn't young people, and the organization was poor, with weak communication.

For example, I've been to two festivals: one in Almaty, organized by China, and the other in Astana, the "Japanese Culture Festival," which took place recently. So, a group of enthusiasts organized a festival that was much more appealing than a large corporation.

First of all, no one knew about the Chinese culture festival; there were no signs or advertisements, and only a few mentions on local TV channels.

A bunch of disparate, chaotic tents, most of which weren't about traditional Chinese culture at all. They had some kind of equipment, and the tents themselves were awful, with greasy billboards imitating traditional interiors and a general disorganization. It was like a marketplace, not a cultural festival. Only a couple of Tang dances, Peking opera, and a few circus acts were on stage, and that's all. A couple of girls in Tang Hanfu walked around and took photos. It felt more like a matinee with a Chinese theme.

Japanese festivals were promoted in Astana on Instagram, TT, and Telegram. Everything was well done; they tried to convey the Japanese atmosphere as best they could. The tents and their design were also top-notch—not just 1080p prints on the wall, but actual three-dimensional interior elements. They invited Kyudo, Kendo, and Karate masters. There were cosplay zones, pop music zones, game zones, and exteriors in the style of Japanese cities, with their flags, lamps, and so on. Overall, they not only created a traditional atmosphere but also allowed guests to interact with the participants and the surrounding area. And as a big fan of Chinese culture, I enjoyed the Japanese festival much more because it wasn't done in a "good enough" style. I get the feeling that the people responsible for promoting Chinese culture don't understand what Chinese culture is or who should be promoting it.

The same goes for the media. Japanese shows are well-known, Korean ones not as well, but they're catching up. China is still lagging far behind in both quantity and quality.

This doesn't mean I'm saying China sucks. In my free time, I translate Chinese products into Russian for free so that as many people as possible can see China. But I also see a frequent lack of care for their products in this media sector.
I’m not accusing you of anything. I understood your original comment as suggesting China was investing tons of money into "soft power" and completely failing so I was wondering what that investment was. This type of “culture” is pure consumerism though and while it is lamentable that those in charge of promoting are incompetent, the main reason is that most Chinese don’t view it as important. Yes they spend money on Confucius Institutes and whatnot but try seeing how much funding that actually has. You will realize it's not an actual priority. Another thing is that iirc most of people organizing those programs are incompetent failsons and faildaughters of government officials doing these as make work jobs (similar to their awful social media team). While it would be nice for the people in charge of these cultural exchanges to be more competent, it's inconsequential. Also, not sure if I'm misreading but I think you are describing an event ran by fans vs some random bureaucrats but feel free to correct me.

Anyways I'll address your other comments. Issues with soft power discussions is that it always devolves into obsessing over entertainment exports which is what your post is all about. I would say that me and most others here like to make the distinction between soft power and entertainment. While popular culture definitely consists of entertainment, most would not consider it soft power. For reference hard power typically refers to using strength to pressure others while soft power consists of culture and ideology. The US and to a lesser extent JP have real soft power. SK does not and this will become obvious in the 2030s as we see much of the past era's ephemeral popularity fade out. Saudi Arabia is a country with no entertainment export and a negative reputation in the world but it has a large amount of soft power. They define what it means to be Muslim today which is worth more than even JP arguably. It's a fairly annoying argument as you can see through all the pages on this thread because it's definition tends to be very loose and people waste time debating different things. This type of entertainment consumption in your first post is mostly worthless in regards to actual power as it fails to actually influence other peoples decisions besides commercialism. For your first post:


Censorship: Censorship mostly effects political thought. Mass entertainment is literal garbage meant for mass consumption. Think about why Dragon Ball or Pokemon are so popular compared to Legend of the galactic heroes. Censorship can indeed produce similar tier titles as can be seen by Genshin Impact. Also if you are focusing on money, tourism as a result is kind of suspicious number but Genshin alone makes more than the direct revenue of Kpop if i recall correctly.
Self absorption: This one is nonsense. Studios focus on their domestic market and this is normal. The most popular stuff from Japan is stuff that they made for themselves that happen to also have global appeal. They used to try to cater to foreign markets but realized those markets don't want that. They want something Japanese. Agree somewhat with localization if you want to be popular but think about why they might not.
Geek Culture: This is even more nonsense. People drastically overrate how big geek culture is. It's its own thing.

Your second comment is the same thing. Making your culture attractive for what purpose? You increase your prestige and tourism!!! Turning your country into a tourism hotspot is awful for locals but also your point here is just wrong. As others have pointed out, SK has less tourists than both Vietnam and Thailand. The only important attitude is how other countries treat you. You have your experience in SEA but ASEAN governments besides Philippines and lesser extent of Vietnam/Singapore have chosen to closely align with China.

For your final post: The things that actually promote a countries image is solely from economic development, a so called hard power. When you are rich, you can do no wrong. Anything you do is automatically correct and cool. Pretending otherwise is naiive. Also your counter to Morty's point regarding JP doesn't make sense? Maybe translation issue. His point is that their soft power doesn't stop US Marines from running around their country doing whatever they want from rape to casual murder. And also, Israel is a case of real hard power. They are commiting genocide on television and laughing about it. They aren't banned from sports or anything while Russia is. People know about it and can't do a single thing. Regarding Japan getting away with stuff, well for the Fukushima water it's just how things are. It's not a constant event so who cares. I mean China has “gotten away” from the Hong Kong riots "revolution of our times" as well in the west. Online memory isn't very long. Also just want to make it clear no one is saying don't get better at certain things like running better cultural festivals and such.
 
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