Chinese Soft Power and Media Discussion and Updates

Bellum_Romanum said:

You're blinded by your own misplaced confidence of your supposed brilliance. Come on man, you think your idea is so enlightened, sophisticated that none can see?

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Brilliance? I'm astounded how pig-headed you are being about easily observed reality! I'm not exactly composing the Principia Mathematica here, I'm pointing out the blatantly obvious!

Bellum_Romanum said:

America can manage to invade, impugn other countries reputation without much damage to herself purely due it's HARD POWER status that it earned at the end of WWII. The fact that it was the only major country that were left unscathed from that war ensured that America was able to rewrite the global rules it thus led to facilitate in the New World Order America created. The creation of the U.N. the declaration of human rights was from Eleanor Roosevelt, the IMF, WB, and whole hosts of global institutions not to mention the subsequent NGO's that came to prominence, the evangelical Christians, along with Roman Catholic Church, as part of her efforts to stymied and combat the USSR are what made it possible for America to so throughly capture most of the world's attention, emotional connection. Plus, the language of the world is English, which were paved by America's forefather that is the U.K./England which made it easier for America to establish their version of truth into the world.

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The institutions that America has managed to set up may have been a product of hard power, but the simple fact is that at present it is American soft power that allows them to command as much hard power as they do. America doesn't need to threaten an attack on the EU or threaten them with sanctions to get the EU to send their military personnel to support American military invasions of Middle Eastern countries. Their hard power has created soft power, but American soft power also creates hard power. The 'liberal democracy' brand is essentially nothing but soft power, and look at how America manages to get Europe to dance on their strings for it.

Bellum_Romanum said:

You keep harping on media when it isn't merely just the media but it's a whole society/civilizational approach that China has to undertake to upend and break that Western stranglehold to the masses of the world.

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When did I EVER say that media is enough to upend the American hegemony? The media is no substitute for having a strong, thriving economy, a rapidly growing scientific base, a growing list of sympathetic parties, and a military that can dissuade America from kinetic involvements against China. Guess what? None of these things are a substitute for a competent propaganda arm either. It's no more substitute for effective propaganda any more than China having a massive and modern surface navy is a substitute for a massive and fully modernized air force.

Bellum_Romanum said:

But without the Military and economic might of the U.S. none of these railings against China's soft power or incompetent media would be a debate.

It is also the unfortunate reality that China as is now as she was throughout her history has had no interest in colonization or has a messianic objective to sinofarm the world unlike the west. China is only ever interested in enriching, improving the lives of it's people (through TRADE/enterprise ) which are numerous which is also one of the key reasons why China has always been the number 1 economic power in the world for much of her history. And why China is the oldest continuous civilization that still remains to this day.

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And despite that, China is looked upon with suspicion. America is a warmonger and China has kept its head down and worked on improving the economic conditions of its people, and it's America that's seen as the world's shining light by the west. America literally run overseas torture camps and murders people with their police force at home, and yet it's Hong Kong that manages to capture the news cycle. Having a police force that refrains from murdering its own people, an international policy that doesn't involve invading and killing people in other countries, and a record that is much cleaner than America's doesn't matter because NONE of that is a substitute for good propaganda and PR!

You're blinded by your own misplaced confidence of your supposed brilliance. Come on man, you think your idea is so enlightened, sophisticated that none can see?


America can manage to invade, impugn other countries reputation without much damage to herself purely due it's HARD POWER status that it earned at the end of WWII. The fact that it was the only major country that were left unscathed from that war ensured that America was able to rewrite the global rules it thus led to facilitate in the New World Order America created. The creation of the U.N. the declaration of human rights was from Eleanor Roosevelt, the IMF, WB, and whole hosts of global institutions not to mention the subsequent NGO's that came to prominence, the evangelical Christians, along with Roman Catholic Church, as part of her efforts to stymied and combat the USSR are what made it possible for America to so throughly capture most of the world's attention, emotional connection. Plus, the language of the world is English, which were paved by America's forefather that is the U.K./England which made it easier for America to establish their version of truth into the world.

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Wrong. It is not hard power. It is not those institutions. It was control of popular media. You could argue that was hard power but that is just nit picking. China has plenty of hard power but doesn't properly channel that into media control.

I have more sources that go back decades, but this proves how much of what we see in the media is us regime propaganda.

The documents reveal for the first time the vast scale of US government control in Hollywood, including the ability to manipulate scripts or even prevent films too critical of the Pentagon from being made — not to mention influencing some of the most popular film franchises in recent years.

This raises new questions not only about the way censorship works in the modern entertainment industry, but also about Hollywood’s little known role as a propaganda machine for the US national security apparatus.

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EXCLUSIVE : Documents expose how Hollywood promotes war on ...

The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good. It’s a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis

Language is actually employed to keep thought at bay. The words ‘the American people’ provide a truly voluptuous cushion of reassurance. You don’t need to think. Just lie back on the cushion. The cushion may be suffocating your intelligence and your critical faculties, but it’s very comfortable.

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Harold Pinter’s Nobel speech, 2005


Americans and many other developd societies are heavily influenced by mass media.

Over the last 50 years, and most especially in the last decade, there has been a revolution in the way Americans spend their free time. How many hours per week do you think the average American child spends staring into an electronic screen? Take a guess. Currently the statistic stands at about 45 hours per week of what is now termed "screen time." All told, American children spend more time watching TV and movies, playing video games, surfing the net, and the like than they spend in school each year.
...
kids are basically devoting their lives to consuming media. When they have a choice about how to spend their time, they almost always choose media. (page 3)

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How Fantasy Becomes Reality - 2nd ed, updated revised expanded, 289 p (2016)



Here's an example of effective media control is at brainwashing people. This is how people become pro American / Western worshippers. they get duped by the western media.

foreign audiences, often knowing little about the United States, will, after years of exposure to American films, develop very specific beliefs and attitudes about the American way of life. (page 125)

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Propaganda & Persuasion, 5th edition BY Garth S Jowett (2011)

George Gerbner and Nancy Signorielli (1990) have noted that the more time one spends "living" in the world of television, the more that world becomes the viewer's social reality. By evaluating the content of commercials as well as several popular prime-time and children's shows, it may be possible to acquire an idea of the "world" that children live in. (page 146)

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Children and Television - Images in a Changing Socio Cultural World BY Gordon Berry, Joy Keiko Asamen (1993)

name said:

Wrong. It is not hard power. It is not those institutions. It was control of popular media. You could argue that was hard power but that is just nit picking. China has plenty of hard power but doesn't properly channel that into media control.

I have more sources that go back decades, but this proves how much of what we see in the media is us regime propaganda.



EXCLUSIVE : Documents expose how Hollywood promotes war on ...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Harold Pinter’s Nobel speech, 2005


Americans and many other developd societies are heavily influenced by mass media.


How Fantasy Becomes Reality - 2nd ed, updated revised expanded, 289 p (2016)



Here's an example of effective media control is at brainwashing people. This is how people become pro American / Western worshippers. they get duped by the western media.


Propaganda & Persuasion, 5th edition BY Garth S Jowett (2011)



Children and Television - Images in a Changing Socio Cultural World BY Gordon Berry, Joy Keiko Asamen (1993)

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Answer this question: Could the U.S. and their Hollywood propaganda been able to successfully transplant their ideas to the world if they were the losers in World War 2?

If you can answer that adequately then your argument has merit.

China's hard power isn't based on the strategic victory on the battlefield but her military success came at such enormous human price since the PLA had no military technology to back her up during the Korean War or even the planned operation to finish off the remnants of the KMT in Taiwan back in the same year of 1950 due to the blockade of the 7th fleet ordered by Harry Truman, hence ending Mao's intention to reunify all of China once and for all.

Bellum_Romanum said:

Answer this question: Could the U.S. and their Hollywood propaganda been able to successfully transplant their ideas to the world if they were the losers in World War 2?

If you can answer that adequately then your argument has merit.

China's hard power isn't based on the strategic victory on the battlefield but her military success came at such enormous human price since the PLA had no military technology to back her up during the Korean War or even the planned operation to finish off the remnants of the KMT in Taiwan back in the same year of 1950 due to the blockade of the 7th fleet ordered by Harry Truman, hence ending Mao's intention to reunify all of China once and for all.

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You're moving goal posts.

Your initial claim is

America can manage to invade, impugn other countries reputation without much damage to herself purely due it's HARD POWER status that it earned at the end of WWII. The fact that it was the only major country that were left unscathed from that war ensured that America was able to rewrite the global rules it thus led to facilitate in the New World Order America created. The creation of the U.N. the declaration of human rights was from Eleanor Roosevelt, the IMF, WB, and whole hosts of global institutions not to mention the subsequent NGO's that came to prominence, the evangelical Christians, along with Roman Catholic Church

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None of your claims actually matched the reality that it was control over media that allowed America to do these things.

I even gave you a bunch of references to drive the point home yet you still want to play the "hard power is all that matters" nonsense.

If hard power is all that matters then explain why woke culture and critical race theory is gaining rapidly and scaring the crap out of Caucasian American criminals trying to cover up their crimes?


I told you people repeatedly that the West's soft power is based on deception and it hates contradiction because that would destroy the illusion, which is a pillar of its effectiveness. The obvious attack angle is to constantly attack the illusion. That's why they're scared of critical race theory. And before you like so many others try to put words in my mouth, I will my position clear:

1. Hard power is the most important.
2. Soft power cannot win everything.
3. Propaganda, soft power, etc is NOT about lying. Lying is one use. Propaganda simply means to push a point of view. It is neutral. The West has chosen to push points of view using deception. That does not mean China must deceive.
4. However, soft power is a powerful tool that can often greatly improve your own position and weaken your enemy's position.

For all the readers who keep claiming soft power is useless, consider what the Western Trojan Horse tactic achieved. So what if a target has better fire power, better fortresses, more social cohesion, etc? They're dead because soft power was used to successfully infiltrate and then destroy.

The same Western Trojan Horse tactic used millions of dollars to inflict billions (maybe more) in economic damage and decades of internal conflict repeatedly on China (Tibet, Xinjiang, HK, Taiwan).

name said:

You're moving goal posts.

Your initial claim is



None of your claims actually matched the reality that it was control over media that allowed America to do these things.

I even gave you a bunch of references to drive the point home yet you still want to play the "hard power is all that matters" nonsense.

If hard power is all that matters then explain why woke culture and critical race theory is gaining rapidly and scaring the crap out of Caucasian American criminals trying to cover up their crimes?

I told you people repeatedly that the West's soft power is based on deception and it hates contradiction because that would destroy the illusion, which is a pillar of its effectiveness. The obvious attack angle is to constantly attack the illusion. That's why they're scared of critical race theory. And before you like so many others try to put words in my mouth, I will my position clear:

1. Hard power is the most important.
2. Soft power cannot win everything.
3. Propaganda, soft power, etc is NOT about lying. Lying is one use. Propaganda simply means to push a point of view. It is neutral. The West has chosen to push points of view using deception. That does not mean China must deceive.
4. However, soft power is a powerful tool that can often greatly improve your own position and weaken your enemy's position.

For all the readers who keep claiming soft power is useless, consider what the Western Trojan Horse tactic achieved. So what if a target has better fire power, better fortresses, more social cohesion, etc? They're dead because soft power was used to successfully infiltrate and then destroy.

The same Western Trojan Horse tactic used millions of dollars to inflict billions (maybe more) in economic damage and decades of internal conflict repeatedly on China (Tibet, Xinjiang, HK, Taiwan).

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Again, in order for that soft power to gain any traction, to be believed by the gullible masses of the world is that it has to come from the boots and victory of hard power a.k.a. Supreme military victory. Japan has been cucked big time by the U.S. even though that country was the only country to be nuked 2x, economically nuked later on during the heights of their economic rise through the imposition of Plaza Accords.

The Philippines is so Americanized because it was under the boots of American empire, their education system, language, government system has been thoroughly Americanized that it's essentially an American colony in the Pacific. Despite American forces essentially butchering almost 1 million Filipino fighters during their struggle against their new American overlords. American occupation of the Philippines was so thorough that even Spanish/Spain that colonized the Philippines for almost 400 years has been washed away except for Roman Catholicism which was more than fine with America since they essentially worship the same deity. Hence why the Philippines from then and now remains a true bastion of American support, where anything and everything America is fawned over with.

The conditions of that victory are what allowed the easy absorption of American made propaganda from academia, business, science and tech, media, news, fashion, foods like McDonald's etc...

Yet here you and your BFF arguing vehemently that all China must do is to contest an airspace dominated by fully entrenched and currently intractable, immutable force of American soft power established on the victory it gained in WWII.

As MacArthur was often quoted of saying: THERE’S NO SUBSTITUTE FOR VICTORY. That victory must come from a kinetic encounter with the current established hegemon vs the rising power that's China. If China were to kick America's behind in the Taiwan situation so convincingly, thoroughly without resorting the use of nukes then the conditions of Chinese soft power will proceed accordingly. Who's going to oppose China in Asia? India? They can keep dreaming...Europe? With how many divisions?

Russia was able to establish it's propaganda arm like RT and managed to impress the impressionable due to the legacy of Soviet Union/Russia which was based on it's victory in WWII. A victory created the appeal of it's ideological/political governance which allowed countries all over the world yearning to break free from the yoke of imperialism as the case with China, a number of African countries, European countries that collapsed due to the war brought on by fascist ideology.

Russian messaging, alternative news etc..would not and couldn't have made any traction or gained currency without their Soviet legacy which derives from hard power/military victory. Military victory gives you CURRENCY, CREDIBILITY that no amount of wailing can do to emulate.

Islam, Christianity wouldn't have gained their world wide currency, evangelizing, converting without KILLING LOTS OF PEOPLE. The conquered land surrendered and accepted the new religion imposed on them or die. Most chose the former, while the brave few chose the latter. At the end of the day, the ends justify the means. I am going to stress this again and again. It's like if you and I were to decide to fight in order to accept one's argument on this topic for example, I would beat the living daylight out of you till you accept my opinion as your own, and vice-versa. Right now, there's no amount of back and forth that can convince either one of us to accept the positions we subscribe to on this matter.

Bellum_Romanum said:

Again, in order for that soft power to gain any traction, to be believed by the gullible masses of the world is that it has to come from the boots and victory of hard power a.k.a. Supreme military victory.

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This is cope.

When did Britain and America conquer China to so successfully to subvert Tibet, HK, Xinjiang, Taiwan? This is your own turf. According to your logic, this should be impossible yet it was done repeatedly across Chinese territory for decades.

When did America conquer India for its media to be accepted so easily?

What army did woke culture and critical race theory use to conquer America to spread so rapidly?

Your theory is contradicted by reality.

name said:

This is cope.

When did Britain and America conquer China to so successfully to subvert Tibet, HK, Xinjiang, Taiwan? This is your own turf. According to your logic, this should be impossible yet it was done repeatedly across Chinese territory for decades.

When did America conquer India for its media to be accepted so easily?

What army did woke culture and critical race theory use to conquer America to spread so rapidly?

Your theory is contradicted by reality.

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Lol and you think just because the Americans are arguing about how many genders they should have, arguing about critical race theory somehow shows that America is what? In a precipitous decline? Which country is lining up to beat up America into submission? Europe? Lol

The cultural wars in America have always existed and time in time again they managed to recover because there's no external power strong enough to defeat them that would make that fissure heightened or create permanent damage.

During the height of the Korean War, the domestic situation in America with respect to their never ending racial strife was boiling to the surface because of Pres. Truman's executive order of toop desegregation, there were considerable push back from the rank and file due to America's inherent, latent racism against Black Americans whom they have been conditioned to believe were inferiors to white. America survived and then went on to have another crisis in the 60's and 70's during the Vietnam War.

Vietnam War opposition, coupled with yet again racial issues with black leaders calling for civil rights movement, the right to vote, desegregation of public spaces, schools, buses. Riots all over the south...with some Southern Governors like the one in Arkansas disobeying the direct order of then Pres. Eisenhower that he had to send in the National Guards to enforce/impose school desegregation. Hippies, culture wars, abortion, women's rights, the birth of feminism etc...

Despite all those challenges America was still the most dominant power in the globe because of their financial and economic clout. They were far and away the biggest economy of the world. They wrote and hold all the global rules; they can renege on their promise of gold = currency and switched from the gold standard to petro dollar with one speech from Nixon. Who was going to make the U.S. honor their obligations and commitment at that time? The French under De Gaulle? LoL...look, America is America because of military power, economic power, technology and the rest are just gravy that no amount of internal dissent can collapse the country.

Today's world is different because American strategic rival is unlike it has faced in the past. They have a country in China that's not only economically and technologically their strongest competitor but China’s growing potent military force/might is equally formidable which scares the bejezus of America, and this despite the so-called American dominance of her soft power.

Now if America were to lose in Taiwan, do you actually think or assume to believe that American prestige can still be held together by their super duper soft power and the illusions of Hollywood image making? Or the American facade of invincibility will come crushing down like a sinking Titanic?

Do you still think that in such a scenario countries who were fearful of America's military might would not break free from the strategic stranglehold America has imposed?

And my rebuttal to the folks debating me about the need for China to come up with America like soft power.

This survey shows China making inroads in the Arab world by doing the opposite of what America has done.

Bellum_Romanum said:

And my rebuttal to the folks debating me about the need for China to come up with America like soft power.

This survey shows China making inroads in the Arab world by doing the opposite of what America has done.

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MuriKKKan: "Why do Iraqi hate us? We brought them freedum and democracy!"

xypher said:

MuriKKKan: "Why do Iraqi hate us? We brought them freedum and democracy!"

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The real shocker is how there are still 35% that view the USA favorably even after all that freedom and democracy. Some people simply can't be helped.