Chinese shipbuilding industry

asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Seriously they cut out CIWS on LPD due to cost ?

I seriously doubt that very much !

They compromised 1-3% of cost to cut huge percentage in capability

The last ditch intercept of anti ship missile on a amphibious vessel ?

Even although LPD biggest threat is anti ship missile ?

PLAN being that short sighted ?? No
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
asif iqbal said:
Seriously they cut out CIWS on LPD due to cost ?

I seriously doubt that very much !

They compromised 1-3% of cost to cut huge percentage in capability

The last ditch intercept of anti ship missile on a amphibious vessel ?

Even although LPD biggest threat is anti ship missile ?

PLAN being that short sighted ?? No
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Well based on what jobjed translated, the point seems to be that a more advanced CIWS like Type 730 would have costed more than what some of us first suspected, thus making going for AK630 a more sensible option, as we had always suspected the reason they went for AK630 over Type 730 was due to cost anyhow.

And I think four AK630 and a single H/PJ-26 isn't too bad for self defense CIWS. These sort of ships would be escorted by one or more air defence ships anyhow.
 
by78

by78

General
jobjed said:
The PLAN is absolutely anal about QA and those found knowingly subverting QA procedures and standards are subjected to criminal charges, the punishment for which includes the death penalty.
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I'm jealous. If we had the same QC enforcement here, the San Antonio LPDs and the Littoral Combat Ships wouldn't have turned into such dog gone disasters, and several Virginia class subs wouldn't have required years of refit to fix defective elbow pipes.

End OT rant.
 
J

jobjed

Captain
Bltizo said:
Well based on what jobjed translated, the point seems to be that a more advanced CIWS like Type 730 would have costed more than what some of us first suspected, thus making going for AK630 a more sensible option, as we had always suspected the reason they went for AK630 over Type 730 was due to cost anyhow.

And I think four AK630 and a single H/PJ-26 isn't too bad for self defense CIWS. These sort of ships would be escorted by one or more air defence ships anyhow.
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It's not so much the high costs of the H/PJ-12s as it is the low cost of the Type 071 as a whole. I previously assumed that CIWS would take up perhaps ~3% of the total costs so I found it strange that they would be that stingy over a couple tiny percentage points. However, if the cost of the Type 071 is only a billion yuan, or ~150 million USD, I can see the CIWS costs easily constituting double digit percentages of the total. Now it makes better sense on why they chose the cheaper CIWS; they weren't skimping out on a couple percentage points but trying to save perhaps approaching double digit percentages.
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
Four AK630s is certainly more than Australia's Canberra-class LHDs are packing for self-defence. And unlike Australia, China actually has enough escorts for its amphibs too.

In any case what surprises me about that infodump is that an 056A is 70% of the cost of the original 054 (700 million yuan vs. 1 billion). Even if we allow for inflation and cost growth such that the latest 054As actually cost 1400 million yuan, the question has to be asked: are two 056As really worth an 054A?
 
J

jobjed

Captain
Lethe said:
Four AK630s is certainly more than Australia's Canberra-class LHDs are packing for self-defence.

In any case what surprises me about that infodump is that an 056A is 70% of the cost of the original 054 (700 million yuan vs. 1 billion). Even if we allow for inflation and cost growth such that the latest 054As actually cost 1400 million yuan, the question has to be asked: are two 056As really worth an 054A?
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He only divulged the cost of the original 054s, without the Type 382 phased array radar or H/AJK-16 VLS, which comprise a huge portion of the 054A's cost. If the 054 cost 1 billion yuan in 2004, I feel safe estimating the current cost of the 054As to be well over 2 billion yuan, especially the later examples equipped with TAS, VDS, and H/PJ-11.
 
P

PanAsian

Major
Lethe said:
In any case what surprises me about that infodump is that an 056A is 70% of the cost of the original 054 (700 million yuan vs. 1 billion). Even if we allow for inflation and cost growth such that the latest 054As actually cost 1400 million yuan, the question has to be asked: are two 056As really worth an 054A?
Click to expand...

For sure up to a certain quantity to take care of business within the first island chain.
 
I

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Lethe said:
Four AK630s is certainly more than Australia's Canberra-class LHDs are packing for self-defence. And unlike Australia, China actually has enough escorts for its amphibs too.

In any case what surprises me about that infodump is that an 056A is 70% of the cost of the original 054 (700 million yuan vs. 1 billion). Even if we allow for inflation and cost growth such that the latest 054As actually cost 1400 million yuan, the question has to be asked: are two 056As really worth an 054A?
Click to expand...
More like three to one, but yes. I would even take two to one if the 056A had a hangar with an organic ASW helo and 8 slant launchers instead of 4.
 
J

jobjed

Captain
Bltizo said:
Well based on what jobjed translated, the point seems to be that a more advanced CIWS like Type 730 would have costed more than what some of us first suspected, thus making going for AK630 a more sensible option, as we had always suspected the reason they went for AK630 over Type 730 was due to cost anyhow.

And I think four AK630 and a single H/PJ-26 isn't too bad for self defense CIWS. These sort of ships would be escorted by one or more air defence ships anyhow.
Click to expand...

After finding his exact post on Dingsheng, it turns out pop3 divulged the
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.

The price that the navy pays for a single H/PJ-12 with its sensors and associated equipment is more than 110 million yuan. This is already the discounted price that takes into account mass production and bulk orders. I think the export H/PJ-12s like the ones sold to Indonesia are even more expensive.

A Type 071 will need two sets of H/PJ-12s so the total CIWS cost would've been >220 million yuan. Considering the 071 in its entirety only costs 1 billion, two sets of H/PJ-12s would've easily comprised 20% of the total cost had the PLAN not opted for H/PJ-13s.

Basically, goddamn, hi-tech stuff ain't cheap.
 
K

KIENCHIN

Junior Member
Registered Member
jobjed said:
After finding his exact post on Dingsheng, it turns out pop3 divulged the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

The price that the navy pays for a single H/PJ-12 with its sensors and associated equipment is more than 110 million yuan. This is already the discounted price that takes into account mass production and bulk orders. I think the export H/PJ-12s like the ones sold to Indonesia are even more expensive.

A Type 071 will need two sets of H/PJ-12s so the total CIWS cost would've been >220 million yuan. Considering the 071 in its entirety only costs 1 billion, two sets of H/PJ-12s would've easily comprised 20% of the total cost had the PLAN not opted for H/PJ-13s.

Basically, goddamn, hi-tech stuff ain't cheap.
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Unfortunately jobjed a hit from a million dollar sea skimmer or two would stand to take out that billion Yuan 071 together with it priceless cargo of human beings and is not worth stinging on. Besides the moral of the men onboard I am sure with be alot higher knowing they are protected by the best that is available to China.
 
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