Chinese semiconductor thread II

[LanceD23]

Infineon is big supplier to China EV market. Its motor control and gate driver chips powers most China EV motors
It mixes special analog process and digital DSP control .

China needs a domestic player with such capability to step up. BYD doesn't have such expertise.

Maybe Huawei and SMIC combo can handle this. Special mixed signal design and manufacturing process.

 

[gelgoog]

There already are Chinese companies which make DSPs with ADCs.

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In fact BYD is financing both of the companies I mentioned above.

 

[LanceD23]

These are Chinese companies which make ADCs.

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There are Chinese companies which make DSPs.

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So it is not like the know how to make such chips does not exist in China.

Those are just general digital chips.
those chips don't drive motor, IGBT or SiC modules in EV.

 

[gelgoog]

There are Chinese companies which make gate driver ICs as well.

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[tphuang]

View attachment 135846
Infineon is big supplier to China EV market. Its motor control and gate driver chips powers most China EV motors
It mixes special analog process and digital DSP control .

China needs a domestic player with such capability to step up. BYD doesn't have such expertise.

Maybe Huawei and SMIC combo can handle this. Special mixed signal design and manufacturing process.

Have you ever heard of Novosense?

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There are different chipmakers good for different applications. BYD is actually not bad at analog chips

Silergy is getting involved.

there seems to be a few products that they have. This is NSD8381-Q1 programmable motor driver

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something about their driver technology enabling SiC and 800V platform in NEVs

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纳芯微电子创始人王升杨在这次中国电动汽车百人会上表示，目前芯片单价在缩水，不过还好使用量在增加，期待在一辆车上提供超过 2,000 人民币的芯片产品。

- 对于产品创新，国内芯片已经走完了从 0 到 1 的这步路，但目前国内芯片在产品核心性能、质量表现、技术创新领域还处在一个刚起步的阶段；

- 过去国产芯片大部分做的是原位替代的产品，当面临缺芯时，可以快速上量，但现在市场又到了充分竞争的阶段，不能只满足于做原位替代的产品；

- 关于纳芯微的发展，目前最重要的核心方向是车身电子、汽车智慧照明、新能源汽车热管理。

From a while back when they spoke about their progress. They provide over 2000 RMB of chips per EV.
According to Novosense, domestic chips have already did the 0 to 1, but performance & tech are still in the early stages. They can quickly ramp up to replace in a chip shortage, but are not good enough to fully replace foreign product in this still competitive stage

Longer term, I do think BYD Semi will make a big push here.

 

[pbd456]

overlay accuracy of ≤8nm means with multipatterning it can do 8nm .
its being ambiguous which model it is. i think this range of spec include both DUV and DUVi family, it's not referring to a particular model.

Overlay accuracy of 8nm has nothing to do with being able to do 8nm chips. 8nm chips by itself is a marketing name. Dry DUV can't do anything close to leading edge.

 

[LanceD23]

Have you ever heard of Novosense?

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There are different chipmakers good for different applications. BYD is actually not bad at analog chips

Silergy is getting involved.

there seems to be a few products that they have. This is NSD8381-Q1 programmable motor driver

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something about their driver technology enabling SiC and 800V platform in NEVs

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

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From a while back when they spoke about their progress. They provide over 2000 RMB of chips per EV.
According to Novosense, domestic chips have already did the 0 to 1, but performance & tech are still in the early stages. They can quickly ramp up to replace in a chip shortage, but are not good enough to fully replace foreign product in this still competitive stage

Longer term, I do think BYD Semi will make a big push here.

No, I havent heard their name yet.
I read their product portfoilo, they seem to be pretty unique among chinese semiconductor companies. They occupied the mixed signal, digital +analog domain.
they got ARM digital core (maybe with DSP capability) controlling gate driving analog circuits.
Does BYD have mixed signals?, I thought they only got IGBT(analog), MCU(digital)..

 

[tphuang]

No, I havent heard their name yet.
I read their product portfoilo, they seem to be pretty unique among chinese semiconductor companies. They occupied the mixed signal, digital +analog domain.
they got ARM digital core (maybe with DSP capability) controlling gate driving analog circuits.
Does BYD have mixed signals?, I thought they only got IGBT(analog), MCU(digital)..

Novosense's product coverage is pretty complete actually and they are one of the few notable domestic suppliers of driver IC and power discretes in a teardown of BYD's 8-in-1 platform. Back when this was done, they were still used in more for basic functions. BYD sources a lot from TI. But as production & capabilities rise in Novosense, I do expect future models to use more domestic suppliers like Novosense and BYD's own products.

this is from TI in July earnings

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• "Revenue decreased 16% from the same quarter a year ago and increased 4% sequentially. Industrial and automotive continued to decline sequentially, while all other end markets grew.

In a year where China EV sales grow like 30 to 40%, TI managed to achieve a decline in its auto sector revenues. I can reach no other conclusion than that TI share in China's EV sector is going down.

 

[tphuang]

BYD claims it has 80% coverage of all auto semi conductors and it mentions MCU for electric drive and thermal management system as one of the products it offers. It would seem to me that achieving full coverage in these areas are pretty straightforward if they haven't done it yet.

BYD's struggles are more with designing SoCs and higher end MCUs.


You can see this, it sees cost of chips per EV to be over 10k (depending not he model). The one that BYD struggles with are the computation chips. I don't think driver IC is something that's too difficult. It does pretty well with AFEs, sensor chips and more basic chips. I'm not sure about Serdes or PHY chips.

things that people don't necessarily know, it's a humongous producer of LEDs and camera sensors. It does a lot of its own stuff.

 

[tphuang]

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Shanghai LinZhong electronics's power semi project is almost ready for production. 800m RMB investment to produce IGBTs and SiC modules. Goal of producing 20 million modules per year.

Xiaomi is an investor here